Wide range driver based 2 way system, Supravox?? - diyAudio
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Old 11th March 2006, 10:58 AM   #1
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Default Wide range driver based 2 way system, Supravox??

Halo,

I'm helping my friend to build two way high efficency speakers. The speakers have to be easy to drive by a low wattage amplifiers, either tube or transistors.

The basic problem is my friend wants a fullrange sound, the REAL FULL RANGE for listening full scale orchestra and classic music, not just typical full range sound from Lowther or Fostex.
There have to be dynamics, power and drive, quite deep and excellent bass.

I'm wondering if it's possible for two way system (midbass + tweeter) or there have to be 3 ways to get a fullrange sound in 25 cubic meters room.

The sensitivity must be some 92-93db or higher, might be even 100db, 8 ohm nominal impedance.

The tweeter will be a ribbon, most probably Raven. I would like to cross it at some 4-7Khz.

As to the midbas/wide range drivers I want no whizzer cone and probably no low QTS drivers.

The enclosure will be either bass reflex or might be some kind of transmission line.

What would you recommend for the wide range driver?

I was thinking of some of the Supravox drivers:

1. 215 Signature - works only with OB, and I don't expect the bass to be trully deep and excellent from 21cm driver in OB, I know OB sound very well, it sounds natural, but usually lacks power and pressure, unless huge cone sizes used.

2. 285 GMF - seems ok and Supravox says it works up to 7Khz but I doubt it and I think the crossover point will have to be as low as some 2-2,5Khz for it to work fine.

3. 215 RFT - seems most possible. It seems to work good and have a good extension down to 40Hz in a huge bass reflex or Onken enclosure type, but it's still 21cm driver. Is this enough for great bass in 25 cubic meters room???

The best solution would be probably to use Supravox 215-2000 or 215 electromagnet, put it on open baffle and use additional 15" bass drivers. But that with expensive ribbons and high quality bass drivers makes too much cost.

What are your opinions. Any suggestions for driver to use?

Bartek
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Old 11th March 2006, 05:57 PM   #2
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Default A suggestion...

Hawthorne Silver Iris

Put it in an appropriate open baffle and you're done (and you can skip the Raven).

Paul Ebert
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Old 11th March 2006, 06:10 PM   #3
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Or something like this?
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_43.html
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Old 11th March 2006, 09:18 PM   #4
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Thanks a lot for the answers. I have already seen and thought of Howthorne drivers. They are very nice but two things:

1. Very high shipping cost to Europe.
2. I'm afraid it might be not as good quality as Supravox and Raven combo. After all they are just quite cheap drivers.

I also know Dick Olsher kits.

They are very nice indeed, but what I wanted is to try to stay with two way system. If we were buy Dick Olsher kit it would be the one with Lowther driver. This along with Eminence bass drivers is quite expensive, and still we would like to get a bit better highs than with Aurum Cantus G2Si.

Have anyone heard any of Supravox 215 in bass reflex or TL enclosure? How is the bass ?
Maybe Hartley drivers would work well? Something like 47 Labs Hotei speakers is what I was thinking about:

http://www.sakurasystems.com/products/hotei.html

Bartek
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Old 11th March 2006, 10:03 PM   #5
sumacSK is offline sumacSK  Slovakia
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Hi,
Look here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...ht=#post118695

and also here: http://www.audiofanatic.it/Diffusori...5/TQWT215.html
Try google automatic translation.

Best of luck martin
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Old 11th March 2006, 10:28 PM   #6
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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I think you are going about it the complete wrong way; the wide range driver should operate on top, with large woofer below.

I think you also have the wrong attitude that a Lowther couldn't satisfy your friend's needs. They would have to, however, be put in the correct enclosure, think Big Fun.

IIRC Thorsten Loesch has Suprovoxes in open baffle, with some sort of active bass unit(s) operating below. That sounds like a very good way to go.
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Old 12th March 2006, 07:22 AM   #7
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> SumacSK

Many thanks for the links, they are very very interesting!

>Dumbass

Thanks for your opinion.

What I want is to try to avoid 3 way system and try to get a nice bass extension from wide range driver. More mid/bass wide range (that needs supertweeter on top) than typical ful range driver.

As to the Lowther, first I don't say it can't satysfiy me or my friend, but there are several limitation of using Lowther:

1. There will be some trouble with integrating it with the woofer.
2. Lowthers with additional high quality bass drivers will cost 2-3 times more than similar quality wide range drivers for two way system.
3. I'm sicking tired of drivers with whizzer cones sound. I for now prefer wide range drivers without it.

As to the Lowther in rear loaded horn... no matter what enclosure you put Lowther or Fostex driver in, the bass and highs will always suck. Sorry I've been there and 've done that, never again!

I personally like Lowther and Fostex , but for now I think they are only usable with additional bass drivers and tweeters.

This time we would like to stay with two ways, becouse of the cost of three way system of similar quality and becouse the room is just 25 square meters.

Bartek
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Old 12th March 2006, 01:33 PM   #8
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Meanwhile Supravox have a dome tweeter with 98dB, so the GMF series becomes interesting. Personally I would prefer 215 GMF in an arrangement like Linkwitz Pluto for better imaging (concert hall experience).
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Old 12th March 2006, 10:00 PM   #9
dmason is offline dmason  United States
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el Ol

Could you expand abit on your thinking with regard to your above comments? This sounds linteresting...
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Old 13th March 2006, 05:16 AM   #10
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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Hello Dan!

From looking at the 60° dispersion of the 215 GMF I assumed that there would still be 90° dispersion at 2Khz. I just looked at it again and saw that 30° and 60° curve is identical, probably an error. Somebody would have to ask Supravox to correct this.

In principle the advantage of such an arrangement is that you have full coherence of the sound, both directly and for the early wall reflections.


Greets, Oliver
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