best $500 system I've ever heard

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westend said:
I use the Panny XR-55 and FR125's for surrounds. For HT it works well. Playing DVD's in DTS mode, I don't know how it could get better. The Panny just delivers great, accurate power.

Have you made any mod's to your Panny? Do you use power conditioning?

I'm going to change the power cord because ... well it just bothers me :) I'm not sure that it will make any diff on an amp that has no reserve current capability but as I said, it bothers me. Such a chintzy cord.

I come from an IT background and my instincts tell me that power conditioning will likely pay off for on e of these amps. What do you think?
 
I was given a Toshiba 4 channel SB-404S, I love the way it can pull a guitar solo out from a 2 channel signal and feed it to the rear speakers. My front speakers are from a Rigonda valve (tube) stereogram, £8 from a boot sale. They're quite efficient, the Toshiba volume never needed to go above 2. Only info I've found on them is that they're 6 + 3 + 1 = 10watt. Rear speakers are Sansui SP-50, £20 from a boot sale. Got lucky with the tuner, bought it last year from ebay Germany for £70 inc shipping, Aiki AT-93. Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard, £10 from ebay.

The last time the Toshiba was turned off was to move in here 6 years ago. Until my T-Amp arrived last week. (£30 ebay.) That 'cheap' amp isn't really, I was more or less happy with my system but now I want Charlize and Monica2, maybe even a HagUsb plus speakers that can really show off class D. Terry Cains' BIB in my little room should rock nicely. Still deciding which driver though.
 
binarywhisper said:
its pretty impressive how cheap some of you are :D Seriously though, some of you guys have done some pretty hardcore scavaging and built some wicked systems for the money. Well done.

We haven't even heard from the "Titan of Tight", the "Pooh-Bah of Pinched Pennies", the "Living God of Garage Sales", namely "His Frugalness" Dapper Dave of Planet 10.

Now, there's a fella that can come up with the highest, low-buck sound on this (or even his) planet. Perhaps, if we humbly petition His Frugalness, he would favor us by casting a few shards of wisdom in our direction.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
frugal-phile™
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Been away (father-in-law died).... (87 dies in his boots, we should all be so lucky)

$500. Big budget, eh? This is such a big budget, i could slot in a whack of stuff....

Let's start here...

Frugel-Horn prototypes with Fostex FE108eS or FE126 (i prefer the 108, but it does need a bit more power) .... with cost of boxes $100. The RonHorn A126s are even better but use more wood ($120/pr) -- 108s were "used".

Class A trioded EL84 Class A PP based on carcass of "dead" Scott $40 for post + another $60 for Solens & bits. Or the RH84 monoblocks (about the same)

That leaves $250-300 for source... i have a nice NAD 5200 CD cost $15 (& some teflon grease) or the $100 Rega 2. Arm upgrade to Linn Basik cost $20 so far but i still owe. Grado cart swapped for NOS Imagewriter ribbon. Have to drag a decent $20-40 receiver out of the stacks to use as a RIAA pre. Lots of room to just go out and buy a DVD player like TerryOs and mod it up.... you gotta remember that the source is very important.

BTW, in a real room, with the music i listen too, at the levels i listen to them at, any of the horns above would be just fine, even if i had a budget 4xbigger. The extra budget would maybe go to better RIAA, a balsy buffer/linestage, and better source. Maybe a bit bigger amp, but the essence of that $500 system wouldn't change

dave
 
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Some comments... The FR125s are great when you have an amp that isn't stellar, but the 3 speakers above are IMHO much better at letting the music out, when your amps get above a certain level, and the extra efficeincy means you can get away with some excellent small amps (and as seems to becoming more & more well established... amp quality tends to be inversely proportional with its output power.

And with chip-amps & a bit of parts scrounging, with a $500 budget one could easily be bi-amping.

The FR on the other hand will sound very musical with a lot of SS amps you couldn't stand to listen too with the Fostex -- that is their beauty.

I listened to a lot of those big black sansuis in there day and was never very impressed, maybe they deserve another listen....

That B2 is a pretty stellar find...

dave
 
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Now systems below $100 are a bit more of a challenge (being able to work in USD instead of loons helpd a bit). The key here is to realise that you are going to have to sacrifice, so lets just aim for musical.

I remember some pretty stellar sound from my Dubloons (http://www.t-linespeakers.org/FALL/2buck.html), $2, and NAD 7020 with a dipole, & KPLU playing the blues on a clear summer night. It also played vinyl REALLY well with the beater Linn LP12 (but that is cheating -- i got $700 for that table). Not as good but still musical was the well setup & modded Pioneer PL512.

OK that was a bit over a $100 (at today's exchange rate -- but under when it was playing).

Use the same speakers, the same KPLU, and a little sleeper we discovered back in my hifi store days -- the 6W Onko TX220* ($10 CAD) and you have a real musical <$20 system. The Onkyo tuner is actually better than the NAD's but the rest isn't (i wonder how it would respond to a few tweaks). Price is right thou... and it has a mic in for when you feel like a little karioke. Lots of budget for a digital source (how about that $15 NAD) or even a decent TT (how about the AR with the bust arm + the Mayware F4 that needed a bit of TLC and one of those Grados....

* there is a little Toshiba that isn't far behind -- there are some little Hitachis that are good too (these brand-names don't get the respect in NA that some of the bigger players did, but they did make some gems.

And if the Dubloons don't float your boat i can probably haul out a half-dozen contenders that cost <$20 (i have a stash of RS 40-1197s & 1354s if i need to pull out some big guns :))

Guys, i could do this all day, but its time to hit the sack.

dave
 
binarywhisper said:


Have you made any mod's to your Panny? Do you use power conditioning?

I'm going to change the power cord because ... well it just bothers me :) I'm not sure that it will make any diff on an amp that has no reserve current capability but as I said, it bothers me. Such a chintzy cord.

I come from an IT background and my instincts tell me that power conditioning will likely pay off for on e of these amps. What do you think?
No, my present gear is not high-end and my mains wiring is good enough that I am hearing no noise or distortion. Bolder cable does Panny mods but a RFI filtering IEC socket and good cord is all you need IMO. They are available at Digikey.
 
Dave, have you considered writting a book on the subject? I think there would a small but consitant long term market for a book on doing audio on the cheap. Sorta like Mike Ohler's $50 dollar underground house book. Never a best seller by any means but Mike has sold over 75,000 copies over the year's and it continues to sell to this day. Hell, Mike made enough that he put on a $500 dollar addition and tripled his floor space :)

Just a thought
 
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binarywhisper said:
have you considered writting a book on the subject?

As if i didn't have enuff in my queue as it is :)

I don't know if i have considered a book, but i have, somewhere deep in my queue, the task of culling emails & posts for gems to put on my web pages. There already are some snippets on my TL site & on my planet10-hifi pages (the box plan library could be considered the start of a chapter).

I also have 5 years of eBay auctions saved with a wealth of info on vinatge drivers (many of those give a big leg up when putting together an ultra-cheap system. especially when you consider that full-range drivers are just now strating to surpass what was made at the historical peak of the tech -- and the new drivers typically sell for lots more). And on top of that easy tweaks that transform drivers from OK, to better than OK.

dave
 
still under 200

i have a good start on my system now
125cad for B&W dm220's
mission 700s for 15 (+60 for new surrounds)
luxman r113 $10
hopefully to be replaced with a quad as soon as i can convince my dad that he should let me have it instead of collecting dust in the basement and with any luck the thorens he has with it
 
Dave,

The Frugel's enclosure has cost me about $80, that includes 1 4x8 sheet of .75" Red Oak, 1 2x4 sheet of .5" mdf, 1 2x4 sheet of .75" mdf, 1 can or primer, 2 cans of paint, and 1 can of polyurethane.
Plus $81.40 for drivers and shipping

s5 K-12 Tube amp ~ $225 after case, mods, etc
cd/dvd players - clients have given me about 5
Kookaburra ~ $120 after case, silver, RCAs, headphone output, etc
Interconnects - free AudioQuest cables from client
speaker wire- cat5, quite a bit of series resistance 8ohms I believe.

Total: $506.40

I'll tell you how it sounds when my Frugel-Horns are done.

Josh
 
* there is a little Toshiba that isn't far behind -- there are some little Hitachis that are good too (these brand-names don't get the respect in NA that some of the bigger players did, but they did make some gems.
Absolutely, my Hitachi integrated amp(HA-M33) of 1983 vintage was a real gem. It was 2x40W RMS with THD of 0.01%, can't believe it was an SS. Pity the IC(TM-2001A) blew out, I replaced it once thanks to a friend who got me one from the USA for free. Now it's blown again but can't find the IC anymore:bawling: .
The cooling was done by refrigerant-filled Aluminium pipe with fins that were part of the heatsink. It was to me way ahead of its times(for the price), microcompu controls and what not....barely 3 inches in height, sleek and beautiful.

I envy all you guys who are fortunate enough to get such good stuff for the cost of a fag.:mad:
 
Mines not too exciting but has more clarity and detail than anything Ive heard (havent really heard much)

SI 5066 T-Amp (yet to be modded) 39 shipped

Folded Monopole FE127E (Fullrange reference design) 80 shipped

Source has varied, but it all sounds good.

Whats impressive to me after listening to boomy speakers for so long is not my initial reaction to the sound, but how long I can just sit and get lost in the music.
 
I agree. This is coming. The reports are glowingly positive, thanks to your efforts, D.

Monica is surprisingly transport-insensitive. She gets fed by a Sony DVP7700, with power supply attended to, but otherwise a very solid spinner, been running strong for almost seven years now, never even burped. She sounds no different using a cheapo Toshiba $49 DVD. I really love the sound of this DAC. Sounds even better with the 30 watt T.
 
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