Tweak for the FE206E

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Hi there.

I want to give a shot to the FE206E + T90A

I have front horns (squared 150hz tractix) with FE208EZ + T90A + JBL2226H for the low frequencies and this is really good.

I have to make a second pair of speakers and want to try the FE206E.

What I want to do to the FE206E is to remove the cone and also put phase plugs. But I wonder, if there is no cone, do we still need phase plugs ?

Why removing the cones ? I don't like full range speakers with cones :D I do prefer the treble of a great tweeter. Then we will lose some weight :)

Let me know if you have ever experienced this.

Thanks, Greg.
 
A couple thoughts, first, you do mean whizzer cone, right? As this only makes sense.

Second, the magnet on the FE206E is a beast. I wouldn't think you'd need to increase it and I've read this doesnt do much. But if you wanted to, I think you have to remove the cap from the back of the magnet and add the additional magnet. If you really want this, I'd consider the special edition FE206ES-R that's coming out shortly.

My ultimate solution? Use a different driver. The FE168E Sigma or even the FE108E Sigma don't use a whizzer and sound really good.

Hope that helps get things started.
 
Hi :)

I have now FE168EZ in backhorn (D37) and FE208EZ in fronthorn.

I want to use only 8" + tweeter. So i will put a FE206E or another FE208Ez in front horn load.

The new FE206ES-R seems strange because the magnet is less powerfull than the regular FE206E from the datasheets.

And Yeah I want to remove the whizzer cone to transform the FE206E into a medium speaker. I don't think this is stupid.

But why don't I get another FE208EZ ? Just wanna try and compare a tweaked FE206E :)

Do you think I am stupid ?

Then when I'll have some money left, I will try the front horn with a Fertin :)

But I do think that a a FE206E without the whizzer cone and a phase plug would do a medium speaker with a fantastic value for the money.
 
If you are determined to remove the whizzer cone on your Fe206e's why not then experiment with the zig zag style cut on the whizzer edge. Others have repoeted great success doing this. There is a chap on the full range forum who has done this along with some dope on the cone and whizzer. There is even a patent out on this treatment. Why not give it a try before you remove the whizzer? What have you got to loose? Regards Moray James.
 
I have removed both the whizzer("cone") and the dustcap(replaced with phase plug) from a pair of FE166ES-R. I'm using them as mids with ribbons and 15" JBLs. Removing the whizzers brings out a ton(can you weigh magic? :) ) more midrange magic from these drivers, the increase in detail was most immmediately noticable to me. It's worth doing if you're planning on using tweeters.

Before you take the whizzers right off, please try the 'zig-zag' or star edge thing and report back with your observations. I'm sure there are others as curious as this guy to know the results but has no means to try it for himself.
 
Thanks a lot for your replies.

Illusus this is great, this is exactly what I am planing to do and exactly the results I was expecting ! You had balls to perform this on an ES-R :D But maybe you knew this would rock.

Yeah I could do the zig-zag before but I have no Idea what this is.

The thing which sucks is the 300 hour break in !
 
Illusus, at what point do you think you're drivers start to roll off? Is there a substantial difference from where these drivers were to what you are hearing now? One more, if you don't mind, did you first try the phase plug, and then the whizzer removal?

Thanks much.
(Sorry for the hijack)
 
Funny enough, I've been thinking to do the opposite.

I've been using Oris 150 horn with Focal Audiom 7k for years. To high, it can extend to about 10kHz. Beyond that, a pair of Audax bullet tweeters are used.

I read somewhere on the net, someone added whizzer cones to his Focal mids & claimed good results. (sorry I lost the link)

About my own listening impressions on Lowther PM4A & some other fullrangers with whizzer cones, yes there is some interferences between main & whizzer cones, thus some colorations & obvious peak/dip around mid-high frenquency range. However, the "single point" source has its magic.

I use line stage 1st order HPF for my midrange , & 1st order passive xover on the tweeter (actually it's solely 1 cap). Also the physical positions of them are adjusted as well as I can. All these are for phase coherence & the least coloration.

But, to my ears, the mid+high combination can not match the fullranger with whizzer in the precious "coherence". Better coherence simply gives a "more real" feel. Especially when I listen to some simple recordings at low level. The tones, overtones, textures are so beautiful. The most important thing is, they are one. One realistic illusion in front of me.

Separate mid & high do have their strong points, though. Flatter frequency response, much better power handling, much cleaner on high SPL, especially on complex recordings. The single fullranger simply can not sustain its magic to some level of loudness & above.

Sadly, we can not have both.

Presently, I myself seldom have a chance to listen at "live level", so I miss the low level magic of those fullrangers, no matter they have whizzer or not. So I thought of the guy who added whizzers to his mids....

The mids were not cheap when I bought them, so I kind of hesitate to give it a shot.

Well, maybe a pair of new FE206 can cure my headache.

Any thought?
 
CLS - If you are just looking into a midrange driver, I'd tend to go for the mid size 6.5" driver. It seems these excel at mids and highs over the larger drivers. If you don't need the bass, you really won't gain anything from the larger drivers. At least it seems that way with the Fostex range.

Satriani - interesting implementation of the tweeter. I have one I'll be incorporating into my new project, though it won't lend itself to that type of application. Interesting...
 
sorry for the late reply guys... I haven't measured the response but it sounds like it drops off sharply around 10k. I have the ribbons crossed at 7k...sounds homogenous to me.
The difference is substantial enough that I can dismiss psychoacoustic phenomena, eg. I can understand a lot of lyrics that I tried to make out and couldn't before the whizzerectomy, also, new sounds and details that were never apparent before...these I've found on tracks that have been through hard listening.
I plugged them first and they stayed that way for a few months before I added the tweeters and removed whizzers. The plugs were a great improvement over stock, noticeable, for sure. I would not have gone further than that if curiosity didn't get the best of me. One thing I plan on changing are the ribbons...they're ok, but I want to try a pair of Heils; my set up is open baffle and I'd like to see how a dipole tweeter sounds with dipole midrange.

CLS- you can have both...try electrostats. They're not perfect either but close.

Adding a whizzer (well, properly) is a lofty goal...so many things to consider... btu achievable if you're determined enough. I've never tried, but it should be a fun project. Keep us posted.
 
Thanks for replies:)


one1speed,

I've been looking for proper drivers for my Oris horn. Now it's kind of a widerange setting.

From that article "The First Watt...", I've read Mr. Pass had the similar opinion with yours. He also mentioned that he prefer FE166 for its clearer mid-high.

Now I'm using 7" midrange on the horn which is designed for 8" Lowther. So the throat area is slightly larger then the driver. I think its improper, thus I made a shallow adaptor on the throat to shrink it a little. If I take drivers even smaller, a smaller throat would be needed. This new adaptor should be much deeper & well-made, which is a real challenge for me.


Illusus,

Yes I like electrostats very much, especially Quad. However it doesn't like my 300B SE. Eventually, I still can't have both:(

I had a brief experience on Oris 150 with Lowther PM4, there are big whizzer & big phase plug as you know. However I remember it's very detailed & clear, also very smooth & coherent, under a certain level (it's already quite loud for a normal living room, though).

At that time, I felt the C/P is not that good, comparing with my own Focals, which already perform well enough. So I kept Focals & returned the borrowed Lowther, sadly.

I haven't heard any Fostex actually, so I have no idea if they are any good for my horn in my system. Meantime the Focal Audiom 7k has been unavailable for long & seldom discussed here or elsewhere, so I lost other's opinions on this end.
 
Illusus

Just thought I'd pass something along. I had emailed with Terry Cain regarding the use of ribbons with the Fostex full rangers. He felt that the Fostex horn tweeters were a much better match, that they will keep up better and will maintain the same dispersion, while a ribbon has a different dispersion. He said he even uses their cheap horn tweeters with some of his personal projects with great success.

I had looked into the Heils myself, but they'd be really tough to implement onto an open baffle without building a shelf of some sort.

I've had some T90As shelved for quite some time now, never listened to them yet. I'm looking forward to checking them out soon. Cheers!

Layne
 
I have now FE168EZ in backhorn (D37) and FE208EZ in fronthorn.

Hi Greg,
I'm going to build a couple of Fostex horns to replace my fe103 BLH (Fostex recommended enclosures).
I've studied a lot of plans and I found really interesting the D-58 project. I also like the D-37 which are more compatible with the space I have in the living room.
My doubt is that FE168EZ seems to have a "to little linear" response above 5KHz, with a couple of deep.
I'd like to combine the fullrange with a tweeter, probabilly the T90A, but I suspect it could match better the 208EZ than the 168EZ (as clearly visible in the respective response charts).

Any impression from listning?
 
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