JXR6 design analysis for near field setup

[deandob]

Scott,

Yes, I am able to hear instruments that appear to come from further left of the left speaker and further right. Not by a huge amount, but it gives the impression that the speakers are further separated and that the sound wraps around you.

I am using a class-D amp which tends to accentuate the soundstage (which I like). This effect is something that I notice that differenciates a very well setup system from the typical hi-fi. It is possible that I am listening to reflections, and when I study the frequency measurements of this setup I do see the combing effects of reflections, however it is pleasing.

I am surprised that having these speakers/drivers with so much toe-in would sound so good, although at the start of the thread others more experienced did mention that the drivers were designed for toe-in.

The speaker location does significantly affect both the apparent sound quality as well as the frequency response, at least for near field listening on a desk, and is worth playing with different positions. Another benefit is that mediocre recordings also sound better (more listenable/enjoyable) when the speakers are in an optimum location.

I have also worked out how to setup the software equaliser so that it does not distort the signal. This took a bit of investigation and is only really useful if you have decent measuring equipment. By measuring the frequency response in the sweet spot (there is only one spot when you are sitting at a desk!) you can correct for the room & speaker together. To get the software equaliser working I had to apply minimal boost & reduce the digital volume by the same amount as the boost. I also found that its better not to go overboard by trying to remove every peak/trough, and you can apply more attenuation than boost. The end result of the equalisation is that voices become warmer (as the mid bass is stronger) and the mid range forwardness disappears.

I think I'm pretty much done with this system. Hopefully the findings in this thread will be useful to others looking to use the JXR6 (or similar) for desktop speakers.

Now to sit back & enjoy the music.

Regards,
Dean

[ScottG]

Originally posted by deandob
Scott,

Yes, I am able to hear instruments that appear to come from further left of the left speaker and further right. Not by a huge amount, but it gives the impression that the speakers are further separated and that the sound wraps around you.

I am using a class-D amp which tends to accentuate the soundstage (which I like). This effect is something that I notice that differenciates a very well setup system from the typical hi-fi. It is possible that I am listening to reflections, and when I study the frequency measurements of this setup I do see the combing effects of reflections, however it is pleasing.

I am surprised that having these speakers/drivers with so much toe-in would sound so good, although at the start of the thread others more experienced did mention that the drivers were designed for toe-in.

The speaker location does significantly affect both the apparent sound quality as well as the frequency response, at least for near field listening on a desk, and is worth playing with different positions. Another benefit is that mediocre recordings also sound better (more listenable/enjoyable) when the speakers are in an optimum location.

I have also worked out how to setup the software equaliser so that it does not distort the signal. This took a bit of investigation and is only really useful if you have decent measuring equipment. By measuring the frequency response in the sweet spot (there is only one spot when you are sitting at a desk!) you can correct for the room & speaker together. To get the software equaliser working I had to apply minimal boost & reduce the digital volume by the same amount as the boost. I also found that its better not to go overboard by trying to remove every peak/trough, and you can apply more attenuation than boost. The end result of the equalisation is that voices become warmer (as the mid bass is stronger) and the mid range forwardness disappears.

I think I'm pretty much done with this system. Hopefully the findings in this thread will be useful to others looking to use the JXR6 (or similar) for desktop speakers.

Now to sit back & enjoy the music.

Regards,
Dean

WOW! I've never heard a speaker "with toe-in" produce an image out of the driver's boundry (..well, no more than a few inches anyway) - thats a first for me. Recording dependent, I consistently get images that range from a foot to many feet out of the driver's boundry.

Since you have eq.. you might consider the response I provided here:

Jordan JX6 full-range line array

The only problem however is that your configuration is in the exteme near-field, and eq.ing the top that much will likely provide at least more "air" - BUT could lead to a "bright" fatiguing sound (..particularly if you don't have substantial low, low freq. reinforcement).

[deandob]

WOW! I've never heard a speaker "with toe-in" produce an image out of the driver's boundry (..well, no more than a few inches anyway) - thats a first for me. Recording dependent, I consistently get images that range from a foot to many feet out of the driver's boundry.

Do you mean you get images many feet out of the driver's boundry when you dont use toe-in?

One big difference between toe-in and straight (at least for near field) is with toe in the centre image is a lot stronger & stable.

I'm only using EQ for bass & mid, I find that treble EQ is not satisfactory and that the treble response is significantly altered by even slight changes in the speaker position & my measurement mic (as expected with combing effects). As long as the average sound level over the treble looks reasonable it should be OK. Also a bit of "adjust to taste" is needed!

I will try reducing the stuffing in my 5l enclosure, as I was quite concerned with back radiation the cabinet may be overstuffed. I used 45 degree timber strips as "deflectors" for the back radiation which should help considerably so I'll remove some of the stuffing and try it out.

Regards,
Dean

[ScottG]

Originally posted by deandob


Do you mean you get images many feet out of the driver's boundry when you dont use toe-in?

One big difference between toe-in and straight (at least for near field) is with toe in the centre image is a lot stronger & stable.

I'm only using EQ for bass & mid, I find that treble EQ is not satisfactory and that the treble response is significantly altered by even slight changes in the speaker position & my measurement mic (as expected with combing effects). As long as the average sound level over the treble looks reasonable it should be OK. Also a bit of "adjust to taste" is needed!

I will try reducing the stuffing in my 5l enclosure, as I was quite concerned with back radiation the cabinet may be overstuffed. I used 45 degree timber strips as "deflectors" for the back radiation which should help considerably so I'll remove some of the stuffing and try it out.

Regards,
Dean

Correct. And its even better with a few degrees of "toe-out" relative to forward firing position. (..again though, there is a fair bit of eq..) Note that when I say I've never heard a speaker with "toe-in" image beyond the driver's boundry.. I meant "toe-in" beyond the listeners axis (or crossing in front of the listener).

Center image stability isn't just a function of horizontal rotation - its also about how close or far apart the drivers are. (..this effects the axis relative to the listener as well.) Pushing the speakers closer together will strengthen center fill.

After you get a base-line measurement - "adjust to taste" is the best method (..provided done with a broad range of your music collection).

If you are concerned about fiber fill effects then consider the material I suggested to Brian here:

Jordan JX6 full-range line array