You'd have to either roll one off circa 1Khz or run bipolar, unless you're thinking of 2" or 3" drivers. Larger driver sizes, if both are mounted on the front panel (or wherever) will put the centre of the cones, which reproduce the treble too far apart resulting in lobing -the bane of badly designed line-arrays.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
Here's a fine example:
Zu Definition
2*10" + super tweeter (+4*10" bass drivers)
http://www.zucable.com/definition/index.html
Specs:
http://www.zucable.com/definition/specifications.html
Review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zu2/definition.html
Zu Definition
2*10" + super tweeter (+4*10" bass drivers)
http://www.zucable.com/definition/index.html
Specs:
http://www.zucable.com/definition/specifications.html
Review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zu2/definition.html
hi XT8510
to answer your question
i have used two full ranges on open baffle, lowthers dx3, however, i made it real true open baffle, with one pointing to the front, one to the back, so there is exactly the same information radiated both directions, offcourse wired in oposite polarity to be in phase, in this case, you not only have higher power handling, less excursion, but most importantly, you have only one point source, the other benefit is that it needs less equalization in this arangement, the other benefit is less distortion, since distortion of one cone is eliminated with distiortion of the other (oposite polarity), its similar like cone to cone arragement in isobaric....
anyway, see my page for more details
ed
to answer your question
i have used two full ranges on open baffle, lowthers dx3, however, i made it real true open baffle, with one pointing to the front, one to the back, so there is exactly the same information radiated both directions, offcourse wired in oposite polarity to be in phase, in this case, you not only have higher power handling, less excursion, but most importantly, you have only one point source, the other benefit is that it needs less equalization in this arangement, the other benefit is less distortion, since distortion of one cone is eliminated with distiortion of the other (oposite polarity), its similar like cone to cone arragement in isobaric....
anyway, see my page for more details
ed
thanks
Thanks for all the info!
I was thinking of using 2 Fostex FE103E in a TL or BLH enclosure.
To see if I can get a little more bass from these small drivers.
Don't get me wrong I mean the driver is pretty impressive when mounted in a good enclsure but I am thinking of finding a way to get even better performance out of them.
Or if any of you have even better driver suggestions,
Thanks for all the info!
I was thinking of using 2 Fostex FE103E in a TL or BLH enclosure.
To see if I can get a little more bass from these small drivers.
Don't get me wrong I mean the driver is pretty impressive when mounted in a good enclsure but I am thinking of finding a way to get even better performance out of them.
Or if any of you have even better driver suggestions,
don't want to disappoint you XT, but you will never achieve real bass out of full range drivers no matter what....no TL goes that deep, no matter how big the BLH, its just magnification what is not there at first place
besides, overdriving the full range with low frequencies just muddies the midrange and increases the distortion
if you want great sound and great bass out of full range, go basszilla way...
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_45.html
or zu looks interesting too....
i myself found tweeter unnecassary with lowthers
good luck!
besides, overdriving the full range with low frequencies just muddies the midrange and increases the distortion
if you want great sound and great bass out of full range, go basszilla way...
http://www.blackdahlia.com/html/tip_45.html
or zu looks interesting too....
i myself found tweeter unnecassary with lowthers
good luck!
Clearly you've never heard my Terry Cain inspired BIB TQWTs with Fostex FF165Ks in them. Depends on what you call 'real bass' of course, but with an F3 circa 30Hz in-room, and a usable 25Hz, that's fine as far as I'm concerned. 
These things thunder. And I have no complaints about the midrange either. That's the best (if not the most amazing, as that sort of bass from a 6 1/2" driver is rare) bit abut them. Like liquid, and not exacly lacking in detail either.
Cheers
Scott
These things thunder. And I have no complaints about the midrange either. That's the best (if not the most amazing, as that sort of bass from a 6 1/2" driver is rare) bit abut them. Like liquid, and not exacly lacking in detail either.Cheers
Scott
Scottmoose said:
They probably didn't.. instead just using them up to the point where the freq. response developed a severe notch with the supertweeter and horn loading exteding from there..
some people are extremely sensetive to this, others are not. I personally couldn't stand listening to Dunlavy's speakers because of this - but it wasn't a freq. response artifact I was having problems with, rather it was "enhanced" (and artificial) directivity in the vertical response.
Notice the "unsmoothed" response on this line array - it isn't really bad until 18 kHz (though they are only 2" drivers:
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/Kuze3201/Kuze3201.html.
Re: thanks
If you don't already have the 103's in hand, you could consider the FE127e in bipole. The drivers are only slightly larger than the 103s, and still have the Fostex FR midrange magic.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=590059#post590059
Of course they don't have super-sized bottom end, but are a very easy listen, and a pretty easy box to build as well.
XT8510 said:
If you don't already have the 103's in hand, you could consider the FE127e in bipole. The drivers are only slightly larger than the 103s, and still have the Fostex FR midrange magic.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=590059#post590059
Of course they don't have super-sized bottom end, but are a very easy listen, and a pretty easy box to build as well.
ScottG said:
Druid sounds phenomenal. It's not a perfect speaker but it plays music better than any other speaker I have heard (including Jordan TL and MLTL, Fostex, Visaton, Tangband, Phy-Hp). On the other hand some people don't like it at all...
One thing which is awesome about this whizzer cone driver is that it really doesn't sound like a whizzer cone driver like other whizzer cone drivers do. The Zu phase plug must be the reason for this?
ScottG,
Thank you for pointing that out. I'd not actually seen the B102s listed anywhere before for some reason, but a direct search at PE brought them right up. They list for only $100 (though I don't know the PE price just yet as I have no access to my email here, damned WebSense).
Stock as they are, I can get close to what I can get close to what I'm looking for with two issues. 1) it has a very low Qts, so its going to really need an enclosure to reach its bass potential and 2) I'm going to need more high end to get close enough to full range for my needs.
I'm most interested in OB, so I just don't think these things will work even as well as the Kenwood bicones I'm using now, probably lucky if I could get the rated 45Hz bottom end with a severely attenuated top end (relatively, of course). I have super flexible active EQ that I could use which might get me just enough high end to fill my hearing (I'm only good to about 16Khz these days, unless you count the weird band up around 22Khz that I can hear, for whatever reason), but I'm going to doubt that trying to EQ in any bottom end in OB is going to do anything other than make them sound bad.
So, I also have a use for them where a small sealed enclosure would be useable. Any idea what volume would be ideal for these things? Also, is the key to mechanically extending the upper end all in the phase plug Zu is using? Is that something I could mimic on my own? Is the phase plug riding the cone or is the cone sliding around the plug (the only phase plug drivers I've ever seen up close were from Logitech computer speakers where the plug sat in a hole in the cone; no really up to speed on the technicalities of phase plug use). Might some combination of active EQ, enclosure and relatively simple mechanical modification get me 40-12000 (or better) out of a pair of these?
Thanks,
Kensai
Thank you for pointing that out. I'd not actually seen the B102s listed anywhere before for some reason, but a direct search at PE brought them right up. They list for only $100 (though I don't know the PE price just yet as I have no access to my email here, damned WebSense).
Stock as they are, I can get close to what I can get close to what I'm looking for with two issues. 1) it has a very low Qts, so its going to really need an enclosure to reach its bass potential and 2) I'm going to need more high end to get close enough to full range for my needs.
I'm most interested in OB, so I just don't think these things will work even as well as the Kenwood bicones I'm using now, probably lucky if I could get the rated 45Hz bottom end with a severely attenuated top end (relatively, of course). I have super flexible active EQ that I could use which might get me just enough high end to fill my hearing (I'm only good to about 16Khz these days, unless you count the weird band up around 22Khz that I can hear, for whatever reason), but I'm going to doubt that trying to EQ in any bottom end in OB is going to do anything other than make them sound bad.
So, I also have a use for them where a small sealed enclosure would be useable. Any idea what volume would be ideal for these things? Also, is the key to mechanically extending the upper end all in the phase plug Zu is using? Is that something I could mimic on my own? Is the phase plug riding the cone or is the cone sliding around the plug (the only phase plug drivers I've ever seen up close were from Logitech computer speakers where the plug sat in a hole in the cone; no really up to speed on the technicalities of phase plug use). Might some combination of active EQ, enclosure and relatively simple mechanical modification get me 40-12000 (or better) out of a pair of these?
Thanks,
Kensai
Kensai said:
The phase plug is certainly part of the equation*. They really seem to help whizzer cone drivers.
*(another part is that to add them you lose the dustcap -- the pp sits sationary on the pole-piece)
Here is a comment i just got from a fellow who just installed plugs on his 206s:
So far my experience is that this comment is applicable to way more than just the FE206. We did make some MONSTER plugs for some Emminence Beta 12LTA....
dave
Our early experience with Radio Shack drivers and recycled foster drivers gave us the "Guts" to try new model drivers. I remember when I first took the razor to the my FE167e drivers. I was scared silly. After I tried a few different shapes and lengths I was happy and convinced. We have had a few challenges with some drivers like the FE127 but as Dave indicates most drivers respond well to the treatment.
I hope you like the plugs. I really like the way the Yellow Cedar blens with the colour of the banna pulp of the Fostex drivers.
I hope this was not too much of a commercial plug.
I hope you like the plugs. I really like the way the Yellow Cedar blens with the colour of the banna pulp of the Fostex drivers.
I hope this was not too much of a commercial plug.
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