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Old 21st December 2005, 12:59 AM   #11
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally posted by Scottmoose
Hmm, impressive. I'd like to know how they've succeeded in eliminating the lobing problems inevitable with running 2, 10" full-range units, full-range. Line arrays need their mids and tweeters packed tightly together for just this reason. That could be a trick worth knowing.


They probably didn't.. instead just using them up to the point where the freq. response developed a severe notch with the supertweeter and horn loading exteding from there..

some people are extremely sensetive to this, others are not. I personally couldn't stand listening to Dunlavy's speakers because of this - but it wasn't a freq. response artifact I was having problems with, rather it was "enhanced" (and artificial) directivity in the vertical response.

Notice the "unsmoothed" response on this line array - it isn't really bad until 18 kHz (though they are only 2" drivers:

perspective is everything
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Old 21st December 2005, 02:22 AM   #12
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally posted by Kensai
Those Zu260 drivers look like just what I've been looking for. Assuming one could talk Zu into selling a pair raw, what do you think . . . $500 . . . $1000 a pair? I'm cheap though, so for those prices, I should get "wonderful" right out of the box, without having to make any sawdust.

This is just a modified Eminence Legend B102.
perspective is everything
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Old 21st December 2005, 06:30 AM   #13
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Default Re: thanks

Originally posted by XT8510
Thanks for all the info!

I was thinking of using 2 Fostex FE103E in a TL or BLH enclosure.
To see if I can get a little more bass from these small drivers.

Don't get me wrong I mean the driver is pretty impressive when mounted in a good enclsure but I am thinking of finding a way to get even better performance out of them.

Or if any of you have even better driver suggestions,

If you don't already have the 103's in hand, you could consider the FE127e in bipole. The drivers are only slightly larger than the 103s, and still have the Fostex FR midrange magic.


Of course they don't have super-sized bottom end, but are a very easy listen, and a pretty easy box to build as well.
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Old 21st December 2005, 07:01 AM   #14
XT8510 is offline XT8510  Netherlands
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after doing some research I think that going with the FE127 would be best for me.
Who knows maybe I'll even try the bipole.

thanks guys
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Old 21st December 2005, 08:27 AM   #15
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You're welcome (I'm sure I speak for us all there). Oh, and bipoles rock! A good way forward if ever there was one. They'll need a little room around them, but well worth the effort.
"'That'll do", comes the cry of the perfectionist down the ages.' James May -The Reassembler
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Old 21st December 2005, 11:38 AM   #16
DIAR is offline DIAR  Finland
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Originally posted by ScottG

This is just a modified Eminence Legend B102.
Druid sounds phenomenal. It's not a perfect speaker but it plays music better than any other speaker I have heard (including Jordan TL and MLTL, Fostex, Visaton, Tangband, Phy-Hp). On the other hand some people don't like it at all...

One thing which is awesome about this whizzer cone driver is that it really doesn't sound like a whizzer cone driver like other whizzer cone drivers do. The Zu phase plug must be the reason for this?
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Old 21st December 2005, 01:11 PM   #17
paba is offline paba  Canada
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Hi all,

Fostex suggests two FF85K per side here...


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Old 21st December 2005, 03:28 PM   #18
Kensai is offline Kensai  United States
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Thank you for pointing that out. I'd not actually seen the B102s listed anywhere before for some reason, but a direct search at PE brought them right up. They list for only $100 (though I don't know the PE price just yet as I have no access to my email here, damned WebSense).

Stock as they are, I can get close to what I can get close to what I'm looking for with two issues. 1) it has a very low Qts, so its going to really need an enclosure to reach its bass potential and 2) I'm going to need more high end to get close enough to full range for my needs.

I'm most interested in OB, so I just don't think these things will work even as well as the Kenwood bicones I'm using now, probably lucky if I could get the rated 45Hz bottom end with a severely attenuated top end (relatively, of course). I have super flexible active EQ that I could use which might get me just enough high end to fill my hearing (I'm only good to about 16Khz these days, unless you count the weird band up around 22Khz that I can hear, for whatever reason), but I'm going to doubt that trying to EQ in any bottom end in OB is going to do anything other than make them sound bad.

So, I also have a use for them where a small sealed enclosure would be useable. Any idea what volume would be ideal for these things? Also, is the key to mechanically extending the upper end all in the phase plug Zu is using? Is that something I could mimic on my own? Is the phase plug riding the cone or is the cone sliding around the plug (the only phase plug drivers I've ever seen up close were from Logitech computer speakers where the plug sat in a hole in the cone; no really up to speed on the technicalities of phase plug use). Might some combination of active EQ, enclosure and relatively simple mechanical modification get me 40-12000 (or better) out of a pair of these?

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Old 21st December 2005, 05:51 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Kensai
Also, is the key to mechanically extending the upper end all in the phase plug Zu is using? Is that something I could mimic on my own? Is the phase plug riding the cone or is the cone sliding around the plug
The phase plug is certainly part of the equation*. They really seem to help whizzer cone drivers.

*(another part is that to add them you lose the dustcap -- the pp sits sationary on the pole-piece)

Here is a comment i just got from a fellow who just installed plugs on his 206s:

I received the phase plugs Monday evening and got them in after some very nervous cutting of the dust cap! I had hoped that I might hear some difference but was quite surprized to hear a much smoother sound through the high's and mid's! The harshness in the human voice range has smoothed out too. I cant believe fostex doesnt build the 206 with the phase plug already in it!
So far my experience is that this comment is applicable to way more than just the FE206. We did make some MONSTER plugs for some Emminence Beta 12LTA....

community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
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Old 21st December 2005, 06:00 PM   #20
SCD is offline SCD  Canada
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Our early experience with Radio Shack drivers and recycled foster drivers gave us the "Guts" to try new model drivers. I remember when I first took the razor to the my FE167e drivers. I was scared silly. After I tried a few different shapes and lengths I was happy and convinced. We have had a few challenges with some drivers like the FE127 but as Dave indicates most drivers respond well to the treatment.
I hope you like the plugs. I really like the way the Yellow Cedar blens with the colour of the banna pulp of the Fostex drivers.

I hope this was not too much of a commercial plug.
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