Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd December 2005, 06:42 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
@Dumbass,

Thanks for the tip. Yep, I've read that site over a couple times. Lots of good stuff there.


Well, I rotated the speakers back to their original position with the drivers up higher. I just could not get used to the image being so low.

BUT, what I also did was hang bath towels over the back of the speakers (I did not have any felt around). This had an incredible effect of absolutely locking down and nailing the imaging. Wow! Everything became more focused and all sounds were now distinct in their own space and vocals gained a level of coherence. It got downright spooky at times. Bass also improved and I could actually now feel a bit of vibration through the floor.

Unfreaken unbelievable this tweaking business I tell you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 07:46 AM   #12
barfind is offline barfind  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newcastle
Hi loudandclear. I have been using the B200's in OB for nearly a year. I have changed the baffle several times, and what I have now is an awsome speaker. You will not believe the sound as the driver breaks in. All that has heard mine say it is the best speaker they have heard. You are in for some very speacil times. I drive mine with a 6 watt "Charlize". amazing setup, and the bass is great.
Have fun

Nigel
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 08:43 AM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
I'd suggest a re-read of Siegfried Linkwitz site too (no way you can abosrb all that stuff in one sitting. Or even a couple of dozen.) Or evena read, if you haven't already. Plenty of useful spreadsheets there too, and Linkwitz is The Man for dipoles. No-one else really comes close. Going for an H or U frame should also solve the baffle-width problems -I see no reason why, if you use EQ, you shouldn't get it down to around 12" or less.

One suggestion, as you mentioned problems with tearing the cork when you mounted these things, straight from Linkwitz: mount the drivers via bracing the magnet from the rear, and don't bolt / screw them into the baffle at all. Not as easy to do, but much better, and will preserve the cork.

If you used another one in future in full-range, then of course, you'd run into lobing problems, so you'd have to introduce a filter to roll one of them off quite quickly, but this can occasionally be a better option than trying to match two dissimilar drivers.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 01:55 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
@barfind,

Yep. I'm really getting a new appreciation for the music experience "playing" with the B200's. I don't know if it's just me, but the bass is improving the more they are run in.

Can you let us know (with pictures if possible) what you found to work best as far as baffles go?

@scottmoose
Lot's of great stuff on the Linkwitz site. Gotta read it several times to get the jist. I don't want to EQ the "main" B200, but will do what it takes (EQ/XO/Slope/Enclosure/Baffle) for the bass driver to get the low end right

The cork bulletin boards are temporary and a quick way to get listening to my new speakers. I don't think I fully trust them to stand up in the long term, as they are a touch fragile. I may do what several people have done though and that is attach a layer of cork to my permanent MDF or plywood baffles.

I will certainly consider magnet mounting for the "final" version as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 07:30 PM   #15
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: British Antarctic Territory
Beyond his obvious technical knowledge, I covet Linkwitz's handwriting and drawing skills.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 07:33 PM   #16
Kensai is offline Kensai  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis
Send a message via AIM to Kensai
Parts of my OBs in my PC rig are from WalMart. Parts from OfficeMax, parts from Michael's, parts from Loew's and the drivers from Best Buy. Maybe $60 total for the pair.

I used the stretcher bars from a pair of cheap 16"x20" canvases from Michaels, that I mounted sheets of black foam-core (black paper and foam, so really quite attractive) to with 2" OfficeMax binder clips (you take the silver arms out of them once you've got them in position). I made sure that I had all the clips oriented to where the engraved OfficeMax logo is visible on the front. No one ever seems to notice, so I guess its just a private little joke for me. Anyway, hinge mounted the stretchers to lengths of 1"x2" that were cut just so they would wedge frimly between the desk and top shelf of my PC desk so they're fully adjustible from 90 degrees straight out to how ever far in they can swing without hitting my gear (variable).

The drivers are Kenwood KFC-6949s which are 6"x9" bicone fullrangers so I don't have the crossover either. I'm driving them with a Sonic Impact T-Amp that I picked up for about $23 shipped that I leave set at 50% (connected with 3' lengths of CAT5 using bare wire on the amp side and gold AutoZone slip on connectors on the speaker side). My source is a EMu 0404 sound card which is very good for doing detailed EQ. In-between, I've got a Presonus HP4 headphone amp that also has monitor out volume/mute control that I use as preamp (I leave software volume controls turned off to keep my players from bit-shaving). The Kenwoods sound surprisingly good (I can chalk alot of that up to my quality source and the insanely high performance of the cheap little T-Amp). They're rated down to 28Hz by the manufacturer (and we all know how much weight those specs carry), but with minimal EQ, I'm getting flat to about 45Hz (though response drops off a cliff around 38-40Hz). On the way up its fairly smooth with a small peak around 2KHz and a large one around 9KHz (both of which have become less pronounced with break in). They seem to roll off around 16Khz, but I doubt that's the case since every speaker I've ever used in this set up, including ones that used BG Neo3PDRs as mid/tweeters seemed to roll off at the same point. It could be the source gear, but most likely its my ears, and I think Kenwood rates them up to like 22KHz.

This is near field listening, and with 94dB sensitivity and 4Ohm load, the T-Amp never breaks a sweat. The drivers are mounted approximately ear height and as far to the outside as possible. All it takes is a bit of tweak to the baffle angle to get an enormous sound stage, at least in width. I'm thinking to try your trick of hanging a towel or whatnot behind to try to tighten the imaging up. The desk is backed into a corner, so they get some fairly immediate reflections from the walls.

Anyway, I feel that OB used with single, fullrange drivers is the only way to go, and definitely the best way to go on a budget if you can find the right drivers (there are a few decent car audio drivers like the Kenwoods, some Pioneers, and then others like what you guys are working with, maybe some Fostex, an interesting set of Goldwood bicones (8008, I think is the model number) that I've been eyeing for awhile (drop in replacements on the big bookshelves I'm using in the living room, though probably experimental OB fodder first).

Go OfficeMax OBs!

Kensai
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd December 2005, 09:52 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Dumbass
Beyond his obvious technical knowledge, I covet Linkwitz's handwriting and drawing skills.

You'll survive...

The plan sounds sensible to me. Leave the main alone, EQ the bass, and roll it off if it's a full-ranger to prevent lobing. Good way forward in my view.

I know this is contentious, but for the final system, I'd heavily advise going for dipole bass, and I'm also less-than convinced about the merits of low mounting to get some gain from the floor. Plenty of people do both with decent, even excellent resusts -fair enough. But to me, a low-mounted driver, angled up throws away a large amount of a dipoles principle benefit -far less excitation of room-resonant-modes than a regular monopole. Ditto using a sealed box, BR or TL for the low-range (say from 200Hz down to about 40Hz or lower.) Dipoles, exciting less room-modes (which in the average room occur somewhere between these two figures) provide cleaner performance in this region. Below around 40Hz, unless you're in a giant room, you can go back to monopole, which is I believe what Linkwitz does with his Orions, which go to around 40Hz, then his Thor sealed box subs for the 25Hz requirements.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2005, 12:15 PM   #18
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Nuuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset, SW England
My TL woofers work well between around 22Hz and 70Hz where they cross over to the Goodmans 201's in baffles. I would guess the B200's would work well this way too.

Only negative is the size of the woofer boxes and that's why I will move to dipole when I can afford too!
__________________
The truth need not be veiled, for it veils itself from the eyes of the ignorant.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2005, 12:56 PM   #19
eLarson is offline eLarson  United States
diyAudio Member
 
eLarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Quote:
Originally posted by Kensai
Parts of my OBs in my PC rig are from WalMart. Parts from OfficeMax, parts from Michael's, parts from Loew's and the drivers from Best Buy. Maybe $60 total for the pair.
*snip*
Go OfficeMax OBs!
Sounds intriguing to me (like my "Bride of Son of Zen Goes to IKEA", in a way, but more McGuyver at the same time).

Got any pix?
__________________
Would a woodchuck bother to chuck MDF?
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2005, 07:18 PM   #20
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
I was getting quite satisfying bass out of the B200s... you just have to have a large enough baffle.

We were getting amazing bass out of the little 6.5" mounted in the original baffles and augmented with Illusus' super ply....

dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg big-ob.jpg (67.0 KB, 2535 views)
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full Range Open Baffle and 5W triode pforeman Full Range 6 12th August 2009 01:18 AM
Building full range open baffle? Glowbug Full Range 27 22nd January 2007 10:15 PM
For Full Range With Subs -- Sealed Box Vs Open Baffle ? DrDeville Full Range 4 21st January 2007 05:26 PM
Multimedia Satellites, Open Baffle?, Full Range? Driver Selection Help Required ozynigma Multi-Way 32 7th May 2004 03:29 PM
full range (open baffle) then_dude Full Range 15 9th March 2004 02:58 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:21 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2