Help another newbee looking to build a first, single driver enclosure. It's going to be a bass reflex. The amp pushing them will be a 10W SET amp. Here are the 3 drivers I have narrowed it down to, please help me choose.
1320SB
1052SA
FE127E
Also, If I were to run multiple in parallel, is it true that efficency increases 3dB for each time you double the number of drivers?
Thanks!
1320SB
1052SA
FE127E
Also, If I were to run multiple in parallel, is it true that efficency increases 3dB for each time you double the number of drivers?
Thanks!
Jeb-D. said:
Yes, but the impedance is reduced as well. Assuming each driver is the same, the resultant impedance is the impedance of one driver divided by the number of drivers in parallel (at least, I think that's right). So, 8 ohm drivers go to 4 ohms when there are 2 in parallel, 2.6 ohms for three and 2 ohms for 4. Your SET amp will probably not drive more than 2 paralleled drivers very well.
Also, when you have multiple full range drivers you can experience significant lobing issues unless the drivers are small and placed in close proximity.
I'd be happy to explain this in greater detail, if you'd like.
You might want to consider a bipolar design. Check out http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html for some bipolar designs using the FR125S. There's been some discussion about adapting these to the 1230. I'm strongly considering building a ML TQWT bipole using the 1230 or FR125S.
Good luck.
Paul Ebert
Check out Omega Speakers
Omega
and here is a little design I'm going to build soon
hopefully when I get some money
The fe127 is a great choice, and from what I've heard and seen the other drivers are too.
Do you have a subwoofer in your room?
Are you okay with having 4 ohms speakers?
what is your budget?
Are there size restrictions?
Have you thought about larger drivers like the fe167?
How efficient do you want the speakers to be?
Josh
Omega
and here is a little design I'm going to build soon
hopefully when I get some money
The fe127 is a great choice, and from what I've heard and seen the other drivers are too.
Do you have a subwoofer in your room?
Are you okay with having 4 ohms speakers?
what is your budget?
Are there size restrictions?
Have you thought about larger drivers like the fe167?
How efficient do you want the speakers to be?
Josh
I guess if your limited to 10watts than effeciency becomes a real issue. Which leads to the question of how big is your listening space, and how loud you want to listen. I've heard both the fostex 127, and the tang-band 1320SB. I'm sure you'ld be happy with either, the fostex is a bit more effecient though.
Joe
Joe
The listening room is very small, don't know the dimensions but it's my home office. And I was hoping for something that can do decent without a sub with music that dosen't have alot of bass. The Omega speakers are what got me interested in those drivers. FR125's have a nice curve but arn't very effecient. That 1052sa project looks interesting. Thanks for the input guys.
The Fe127s I built in GMs TL need a subwoofer. The Tang Bands will definately deliver some better bass than the fostex. In your situation I would forget about the fr125s. I'm guessing your associates might not like you turning up the volume too loud so they don't need to be super effecient.
I think that the TB W4-1052sa will give you the best bass. It not only has a lower fs, but a larger xmax as well. Personally I might try two of these in a bipole design. They will need some help up top, but I think they will sound great. You could also consider the modification .
Good luck,
Josh
I think that the TB W4-1052sa will give you the best bass. It not only has a lower fs, but a larger xmax as well. Personally I might try two of these in a bipole design. They will need some help up top, but I think they will sound great. You could also consider the modification .
Good luck,
Josh
Based on the freq plots on McKenzie's page, no tweeter necessary IMO. Worth emphasizing that the McKenzie mod is both the glue ring and the EQ circuit. (Mods prolly not necessary for the rear-firing drivers?)edjosh23 said:
Looks like a fun driver to play with, especially if McKenzie's comments hold true.
This is the same dilema I've been caught in for a while concerning my desk system:
1) FE127 in bass reflex design (Fairly small, simulates with decent bass, great high end)
2) Single W4-1052SA in bass reflex (Very small but pretty low... But the high end performance is unknown)
3) Omega Clone (Should sound great, but a bit more expensive also currently untested. Plus the same high end discomfort, IMHO)
Anyway, good luck, this ones a real noodle-scratcher!
While I'm posting does anyone know the LE of the FE127 or the 1052? I can't seem to find it and I can't run the MJK sheet until I have it.
1) FE127 in bass reflex design (Fairly small, simulates with decent bass, great high end)
2) Single W4-1052SA in bass reflex (Very small but pretty low... But the high end performance is unknown)
3) Omega Clone (Should sound great, but a bit more expensive also currently untested. Plus the same high end discomfort, IMHO)
Anyway, good luck, this ones a real noodle-scratcher!
While I'm posting does anyone know the LE of the FE127 or the 1052? I can't seem to find it and I can't run the MJK sheet until I have it.
blip1882,
FE127 Le: well the fe126 is .0065mH. All of the fostex drivers have low Le, the FE108EZ is .038, and I think the sigma series is in its own league, but I would say the Le of the FE127 is around the Le of the FE126. Also, none of their speakers have Le higher than .07mH.
If I remember correctly I heard the w4-1052 was at diy Seatle, I believe I heard good reviews about its performance, it was a single driver in a bass reflex. I also think that if Omega is willing to put their name on it with such a high price tag that they should be worth it.
Josh
FE127 Le: well the fe126 is .0065mH. All of the fostex drivers have low Le, the FE108EZ is .038, and I think the sigma series is in its own league, but I would say the Le of the FE127 is around the Le of the FE126. Also, none of their speakers have Le higher than .07mH.
If I remember correctly I heard the w4-1052 was at diy Seatle, I believe I heard good reviews about its performance, it was a single driver in a bass reflex. I also think that if Omega is willing to put their name on it with such a high price tag that they should be worth it.
Josh
Looks like 1052's in the Omega Minuet. Don't know about them having an "alloy chassis", though - mine look like they have plain old stamped steel baskets.
Josh -
Yes, I brought my 1052's to DIY seattle. I think a dipole would work well with these, as mine could use some BSC in a larger room. For desktop use in a small room they've got all the bass I could ask for.
Josh -
Yes, I brought my 1052's to DIY seattle. I think a dipole would work well with these, as mine could use some BSC in a larger room. For desktop use in a small room they've got all the bass I could ask for.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Josh
Thanks for the info.. I should have thought to estimate it based upon the 126s... good thinking! . I'll be running some sims tonight!
bwbass
Great looking speaker! So you don't feel that the high-end is recessed on these at all? Also would mind sharing dimensions, port length etc. I'm pretty excited about the use of these drivers in desktop monitors but my simulations keep on producing ultra long port lengths?
Thanks for the info.. I should have thought to estimate it based upon the 126s... good thinking! . I'll be running some sims tonight!
bwbass
Great looking speaker! So you don't feel that the high-end is recessed on these at all? Also would mind sharing dimensions, port length etc. I'm pretty excited about the use of these drivers in desktop monitors but my simulations keep on producing ultra long port lengths?
I used MarkMck's prefilter and cone mod on these which removes the upper-mid hump and leaves a high-end rolloff around 17k, which is plenty extended for my ears. They do "beam" quite a bit though, due to the 4" cones. They sound very detailed and "alive" on-axis, which means toeing them in quite a bit in desktop use. These days I actually use them as my HT mains, where the greater listening distance makes this less of an issue.
They're 7l (.25 ft^3) "Golden Ratio" boxes, though I don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head. I used the SBB4 alignment in WinISD. As I recall, the port is 2" x 7" or so... yes that is a very long port! In fact, it's too long for the depth of the cabinet, so I used an elbow:
They're 7l (.25 ft^3) "Golden Ratio" boxes, though I don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head. I used the SBB4 alignment in WinISD. As I recall, the port is 2" x 7" or so... yes that is a very long port! In fact, it's too long for the depth of the cabinet, so I used an elbow:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
bwbass,
There they are, very nice! So what are they tuned to?
"Golden Ratio"?
Why did you choose such as small box?
Is that duct seal on the woofer frame/magnet?
by the way, I couldn't even knowtice the glue on the cone, is it obvious in person?
blip1882,
my simulations leave me with pretty normal size ports.
Josh
There they are, very nice! So what are they tuned to?
"Golden Ratio"?
Why did you choose such as small box?
Is that duct seal on the woofer frame/magnet?
by the way, I couldn't even knowtice the glue on the cone, is it obvious in person?
blip1882,
my simulations leave me with pretty normal size ports.
Josh
SBB alignment tunes the box to Fs, which is 65Hz.(..?) I chose this alignment to maximize output and power handling with the T-amp. With a more traditional alignment tuned lower, the driver runs out of Xmax above Fb around 6 watts as I recall. The SBB alignment is good for 9.5 watts or so but doesn't go quite as deep.
Nope, just the paper label.
Good eye! There's no glue on the cone, it's the other mod which he didn't make public. There used to be a graph and a filter design posted for this but I can't find it now. Perhaps he pulled it? At any rate I contacted him and got a mod kit with instructions.
"golden ratio" refers to the internal dimensions of the box being in the proportions of 2/3 x 1 x 5/3 in order to minimize coloration caused by standing waves.
7l
I used a 2 x 5" long elbow pvc pipe for my 4" Bamboo's in a similar sized enclosure.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/Bamboo.asp
I used a 2 x 5" long elbow pvc pipe for my 4" Bamboo's in a similar sized enclosure.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/Bamboo.asp
bwbass,
I just find out what the "Golden Ratio" was from another thread.
I should have remembered from reading the LDC that they were tuned to the fs. I think I'm loosing my memory
Godzilla,
I don't quite understand your box for those W4s. Can you show another picture of a finished cabinet or the woofer in the cabinet. I see 4 holes in a box. 1 for the TB, 1 for the piezo, 1 for the port, and 1 unknown.
Thanks,
Josh
I just find out what the "Golden Ratio" was from another thread.
I should have remembered from reading the LDC that they were tuned to the fs. I think I'm loosing my memory
Godzilla,
I don't quite understand your box for those W4s. Can you show another picture of a finished cabinet or the woofer in the cabinet. I see 4 holes in a box. 1 for the TB, 1 for the piezo, 1 for the port, and 1 unknown.
Thanks,
Josh
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