Ok I know these drivers are quite old now, but I just got around to finishing the recomended horn cabinets. and i must say im not very impressed. there is alot of bass for such a small speaker but the box is huge and the highs just arent there.
I'm thinking of adding a tweeter. maybe one of the fostex horn tweeters. does anyone else feel this way about these speakers in these horns?
I had them open baffle with a sub for almost the last year and while they wherent perfect they where more effeicent and they had much better highs. any ideas?
I'm thinking of adding a tweeter. maybe one of the fostex horn tweeters. does anyone else feel this way about these speakers in these horns?
I had them open baffle with a sub for almost the last year and while they wherent perfect they where more effeicent and they had much better highs. any ideas?
Just out of curiosity... did you try it without stuffing as well? My FE108EZ react quite allergic to any disturbance in the acoustic impedance. One of the results is a lack of treble. If it's not too great a hassle, it might be worth trying out.
Have you experimented with the positioning of the horns? (Small sweet spot, and all that..)
Best of luck,
Oliver
well they are in my bedroom and its far from idea. dont have alot of area to work with. so positioning will be tough. i can move away from the wall a little and i can adjust toe in and out. which is critical with these beamy speakers. but dont have alot of options there. i could probably take the foam out but it would ruin the adhesive on the back and id have to use glue if i wished to put back. if all else fails i will try it but its to spec on the plans and from what i remember other users saying it was pretty important to have it.
Zobsky do you have a tweeter on yours? it would be a super tweeter correct? i was thinking of the fostex FT17H horn tweeter. as i have previous experiance with it and it seemed ok. with a 2um cap iirc i dont really want to spend mega bux for a tweeter for these. its amazing how differant they sound in horns compaired to the OB's i had them in before.
slappomatt said:
No, not yet, .. have a couple of piezos tweeters in parallel (x over = a 20 ohm resistor in parallel + a cap in series, forget which value) , but i still feel the piezo's either couldn't keep up in efficiency or maybe they roll off too early,
i still need to play with them / x-over points a lot more, so i haven't given up.
OTOH, i once borrowed from a friend,an Aurum Cantus G2 ribbon, to use as a super tweeter, and it was very nice and sweet sounding (crossed over in the low teens with whatever cap i had lying closest)
many months ago, i heard the FT17H once running as a super tweeter to a DIY FE-168EZ / voigt pipe and it seemed to do quite well, though I didn't listen critically
hope that helps
zobsky said:
Nelson Pass said it measured almost on spec.., but my measurements show a clear downward "tilt" from 1.5 kHz. Who knows, maybe some of us received inferior units, or maybe its because I measured the driver's after 300 Hours of continuous music "break-in" (or like I thought b4 perhaps its my measurement setup)? In fact the depression I measured, (while gradual and relativly linear), is at a low enough freq. to require a fairly broad band tweeter for a respectable freq. response. My best guess it that the new Fountek Neo 2 with a good cap in the right place would work out quite well (..no inductor on the ESR) - but I haven't the funds or the time to try it right now.
I do agree though about the tonality, and in fact the driver is pretty "clear" (or "transparent") as well, though not even close to the Audax PR170ZO in this respect (which incidentally is the best driver I've ever heard from about 400 Hz to 3 kHz).
slappomatt said:
Hi Slappomatt,
Are we even talking about the same drivers?
I built a modified Swan D-168 for the 166esr drivers. I have a love/hate relationship with them. The high end sounds downright incredible! And the bass is full, clean and tight. However, the midrange is too bright and edgy on most of my CDs. I have a couple of CDs that send me into a deep state of Nirvana. But most of my CDs have me quickly changing the track because the midrange sounds too metallic.My Swans are made out of oak plywood lined with river rock and epoxy. So, they have a very hard irregular surface on the inside. If I use any dampening material in the CC itself, the dampening material sucks the life out of the sound. Also, I used Dave's phase plugs. These help focus the treble. BTW, I listen to my favorite CDs with the speakers on axis to my ears...something most Fostex owners don't do. (From what I've read.)
Did you make your cabinets out of MDF? Maybe that would explain the differences we hear. You might also want to remove at least some of the dampening material from the CC. And maybe even coating the inside of the CC with epoxy or lacquer. Let us know how it works out!
Sincerely,
Rich
Re: Re: FE166E-SR rec horns
Do the Swans have any baffle step compensation? If not, that would certainly account for your description here (when considering my measured results). Something like a broad-band bump between 400 Hz and 2 kHz with a similar (in spl) bump for bass to upper bass (55-80 Hz).
rray786 said:
Hi Slappomatt,
Are we even talking about the same drivers?
My Swans are made out of oak plywood lined with river rock and epoxy. So, they have a very hard irregular surface on the inside. If I use any dampening material in the CC itself, the dampening material sucks the life out of the sound. Also, I used Dave's phase plugs. These help focus the treble. BTW, I listen to my favorite CDs with the speakers on axis to my ears...something most Fostex owners don't do. (From what I've read.)
Did you make your cabinets out of MDF? Maybe that would explain the differences we hear. You might also want to remove at least some of the dampening material from the CC. And maybe even coating the inside of the CC with epoxy or lacquer. Let us know how it works out!
Sincerely,
Rich
Do the Swans have any baffle step compensation? If not, that would certainly account for your description here (when considering my measured results). Something like a broad-band bump between 400 Hz and 2 kHz with a similar (in spl) bump for bass to upper bass (55-80 Hz).
Interesting, Zaph is showing a response similar to Nelson's.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/fr.html
His CSD overall decay looks about right to me.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/fr.html
His CSD overall decay looks about right to me.
well when i had them in open baffle i loved the highs. i didnt feel like i was missing anything up there. there was no bass to speak of naturally. but with a sub they where for the most part listenable. now that i have both horns done they do sound pretty good. but there still seems to be a hole in the upper highs. i might have to try taking some of the dampening out. i remember when these came out the general concensus was to build the recomended horn. im supreized there hasnt been more people speaking about this cabinet. although it was a while ago. im kinda leaning twards a super tweeter at the moment. although im not really in the position to be spending more cash on drivers. so that will probably have to wait a bit. thanks for the help guys apreciate it!
coredump said:
Yes, I do use a 'sand' amp. So, I'll try adding some resistance. Thanks for the advice.
ScottG said:
Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think the problem is BSL, though. (But, I could be wrong!) I've tried BSC in one speaker (I only had enough parts for one BSC) and the speaker sounded dull. I also ran some frequencies through my Swans (without BSC) from the freebie signal generator in WinISD. Since the mouth opening is in the back, it is quite easy to distinguish the mouth output from the driver output. I can hear frequencies as high as 850 Hz coming out of the mouth! At 700 Hz, the sound at the mouth is just as loud as the driver. This frequency is higher than the point of BSL so I'd guess there isn't any BSL due to the bipole effect. And, when I sweep frequencies, I don't hear a BSL either. But the frequency response does sound pretty ragged so maybe I missed the BSL. Any comments are appreciated!
Sincerely,
Rich
little follow up
so i had some 4 ohm Dayton silk done tweet's laying around. and i slapped on the closest cap i had a 2.7 uf. i think that relates to around 12k crossover? anyways it sound better. its not quite there. think i need a smaller cap but its getting there. im amazed that i had the parts needed to get this close. i only have 3 size caps and the only tweeters i had turned out to be just about the exact DB that i didnt need to pad it down.
so i had some 4 ohm Dayton silk done tweet's laying around. and i slapped on the closest cap i had a 2.7 uf. i think that relates to around 12k crossover? anyways it sound better. its not quite there. think i need a smaller cap but its getting there. im amazed that i had the parts needed to get this close. i only have 3 size caps and the only tweeters i had turned out to be just about the exact DB that i didnt need to pad it down.
what did you use for dampening in the chamber? also i made these with mdf and i know people have claimed they come out dull and lifeless with mdf. the dampening i used was a fairly thick acoustic triple layer foam from parts express and im thinking it was too much. the drivers where great in the high's before when i had them in OB so im sure its something to do with the box and the dampening. probably both.
slappomatt said:
I finally settled on some locally-available trunk liner felt (which appears to be 1/8" or 3/16" polyester). I also used the same material to line the lower "steps" of the horn. Cabinets are 3/4" birch/maple plywood (not Baltic) from Home Depot...on sale at $30/sheet at the time of purchase. With the maple veneer side facing out.
I originally tried no dampening... then 1/2" cotton batting... but found that it absolutely snuffed out most of the bass output. To be honest, I didn't note any treble anomalities with the cotton, since the bass problem was so obvious, at least to these ears.
Many have had good luck with a thin natural wool felt...I don't think you can go wrong with that. But, of course, the ol' YMMV applies here.
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