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Old 4th November 2005, 01:36 AM   #11
rray786 is offline rray786  United States
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Default Re: FE166E-SR rec horns

Quote:
Originally posted by slappomatt
i must say im not very impressed. there is alot of bass for such a small speaker but the box is huge and the highs just arent there.

Hi Slappomatt,

Are we even talking about the same drivers? I built a modified Swan D-168 for the 166esr drivers. I have a love/hate relationship with them. The high end sounds downright incredible! And the bass is full, clean and tight. However, the midrange is too bright and edgy on most of my CDs. I have a couple of CDs that send me into a deep state of Nirvana. But most of my CDs have me quickly changing the track because the midrange sounds too metallic.

My Swans are made out of oak plywood lined with river rock and epoxy. So, they have a very hard irregular surface on the inside. If I use any dampening material in the CC itself, the dampening material sucks the life out of the sound. Also, I used Dave's phase plugs. These help focus the treble. BTW, I listen to my favorite CDs with the speakers on axis to my ears...something most Fostex owners don't do. (From what I've read.)

Did you make your cabinets out of MDF? Maybe that would explain the differences we hear. You might also want to remove at least some of the dampening material from the CC. And maybe even coating the inside of the CC with epoxy or lacquer. Let us know how it works out!

Sincerely,
Rich
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Old 4th November 2005, 05:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Re: FE166E-SR rec horns

Rich,
Quote:
Originally posted by rray786
The high end sounds downright incredible! And the bass is full, clean and tight. However, the midrange is too bright and edgy on most of my CDs. I have a couple of CDs that send me into a deep state of Nirvana. But most of my CDs have me quickly changing the track because the midrange sounds too metallic.
I had similar problems with my B'horns/FE108EZ, because I use a 'sand' amp. 1.2R between amp and speakers cured this problem. Just a thought...

Best regards,

Oliver
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Old 4th November 2005, 06:12 AM   #13
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: Re: FE166E-SR rec horns

Quote:
Originally posted by rray786



Hi Slappomatt,

Are we even talking about the same drivers? I built a modified Swan D-168 for the 166esr drivers. I have a love/hate relationship with them. The high end sounds downright incredible! And the bass is full, clean and tight. However, the midrange is too bright and edgy on most of my CDs. I have a couple of CDs that send me into a deep state of Nirvana. But most of my CDs have me quickly changing the track because the midrange sounds too metallic.

My Swans are made out of oak plywood lined with river rock and epoxy. So, they have a very hard irregular surface on the inside. If I use any dampening material in the CC itself, the dampening material sucks the life out of the sound. Also, I used Dave's phase plugs. These help focus the treble. BTW, I listen to my favorite CDs with the speakers on axis to my ears...something most Fostex owners don't do. (From what I've read.)

Did you make your cabinets out of MDF? Maybe that would explain the differences we hear. You might also want to remove at least some of the dampening material from the CC. And maybe even coating the inside of the CC with epoxy or lacquer. Let us know how it works out!

Sincerely,
Rich

Do the Swans have any baffle step compensation? If not, that would certainly account for your description here (when considering my measured results). Something like a broad-band bump between 400 Hz and 2 kHz with a similar (in spl) bump for bass to upper bass (55-80 Hz).
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Old 4th November 2005, 07:00 AM   #14
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Interesting, Zaph is showing a response similar to Nelson's.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/fr.html

His CSD overall decay looks about right to me.
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Old 4th November 2005, 12:12 PM   #15
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well when i had them in open baffle i loved the highs. i didnt feel like i was missing anything up there. there was no bass to speak of naturally. but with a sub they where for the most part listenable. now that i have both horns done they do sound pretty good. but there still seems to be a hole in the upper highs. i might have to try taking some of the dampening out. i remember when these came out the general concensus was to build the recomended horn. im supreized there hasnt been more people speaking about this cabinet. although it was a while ago. im kinda leaning twards a super tweeter at the moment. although im not really in the position to be spending more cash on drivers. so that will probably have to wait a bit. thanks for the help guys apreciate it!
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Old 4th November 2005, 08:55 PM   #16
rray786 is offline rray786  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by coredump
Rich,


I had similar problems with my B'horns/FE108EZ, because I use a 'sand' amp. 1.2R between amp and speakers cured this problem. Just a thought...

Best regards,

Oliver
Yes, I do use a 'sand' amp. So, I'll try adding some resistance. Thanks for the advice.


Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG



Do the Swans have any baffle step compensation? If not, that would certainly account for your description here (when considering my measured results). Something like a broad-band bump between 400 Hz and 2 kHz with a similar (in spl) bump for bass to upper bass (55-80 Hz).

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think the problem is BSL, though. (But, I could be wrong!) I've tried BSC in one speaker (I only had enough parts for one BSC) and the speaker sounded dull. I also ran some frequencies through my Swans (without BSC) from the freebie signal generator in WinISD. Since the mouth opening is in the back, it is quite easy to distinguish the mouth output from the driver output. I can hear frequencies as high as 850 Hz coming out of the mouth! At 700 Hz, the sound at the mouth is just as loud as the driver. This frequency is higher than the point of BSL so I'd guess there isn't any BSL due to the bipole effect. And, when I sweep frequencies, I don't hear a BSL either. But the frequency response does sound pretty ragged so maybe I missed the BSL. Any comments are appreciated!

Sincerely,
Rich
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Old 5th November 2005, 01:46 AM   #17
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Default little follow up

so i had some 4 ohm Dayton silk done tweet's laying around. and i slapped on the closest cap i had a 2.7 uf. i think that relates to around 12k crossover? anyways it sound better. its not quite there. think i need a smaller cap but its getting there. im amazed that i had the parts needed to get this close. i only have 3 size caps and the only tweeters i had turned out to be just about the exact DB that i didnt need to pad it down.
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Old 12th November 2005, 04:00 PM   #18
tmmuch is offline tmmuch  United States
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Default Re: FE166E-SR rec horns

Quote:
Originally posted by slappomatt
Ok I know these drivers are quite old now, but I just got around to finishing the recomended horn cabinets. and i must say im not very impressed. there is alot of bass for such a small speaker but the box is huge and the highs just arent there.

I'm thinking of adding a tweeter. maybe one of the fostex horn tweeters. does anyone else feel this way about these speakers in these horns?

I had them open baffle with a sub for almost the last year and while they wherent perfect they where more effeicent and they had much better highs. any ideas?

I've lived with these for almost a year. All I can say is there must be something drastically wrong either with the drivers/cabinets themselves...or the setup.

I have absolutely no need for tweeters in my 300B rig.
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Old 14th November 2005, 02:34 PM   #19
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what did you use for dampening in the chamber? also i made these with mdf and i know people have claimed they come out dull and lifeless with mdf. the dampening i used was a fairly thick acoustic triple layer foam from parts express and im thinking it was too much. the drivers where great in the high's before when i had them in OB so im sure its something to do with the box and the dampening. probably both.
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Old 14th November 2005, 04:21 PM   #20
tmmuch is offline tmmuch  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by slappomatt
what did you use for dampening in the chamber? also i made these with mdf and i know people have claimed they come out dull and lifeless with mdf. the dampening i used was a fairly thick acoustic triple layer foam from parts express and im thinking it was too much. the drivers where great in the high's before when i had them in OB so im sure its something to do with the box and the dampening. probably both.

I finally settled on some locally-available trunk liner felt (which appears to be 1/8" or 3/16" polyester). I also used the same material to line the lower "steps" of the horn. Cabinets are 3/4" birch/maple plywood (not Baltic) from Home Depot...on sale at $30/sheet at the time of purchase. With the maple veneer side facing out.

I originally tried no dampening... then 1/2" cotton batting... but found that it absolutely snuffed out most of the bass output. To be honest, I didn't note any treble anomalities with the cotton, since the bass problem was so obvious, at least to these ears.

Many have had good luck with a thin natural wool felt...I don't think you can go wrong with that. But, of course, the ol' YMMV applies here.
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