Hi, I'm looking to build a smallish pair of speakers and like the idea of a full range driver. I'll be upgrading from a _beat_ pair of Bose 101's, so I should be easy to please. I don't have a sub and my amp is an old 30 watt SS Yamaha.
After looking around a little, I'm torn between the fe127e and fr125s in a BR or TL enclosure. Should I spring for Creative Sound or is the Fostex likely to be more than enough for a bottom feeder like myself?
Thanks, Clark
After looking around a little, I'm torn between the fe127e and fr125s in a BR or TL enclosure. Should I spring for Creative Sound or is the Fostex likely to be more than enough for a bottom feeder like myself?
Thanks, Clark
Just a few questions for you, to help decide on which is best for you.
What type of music do you listen to?
What size enclosures are you thinking about?
What size room?
Are you good at woodwork?
What is keeping you from purchasing larger drivers that still fall into your price range like the Fostex FE167 or the AudioNirvana drivers?
Josh
What type of music do you listen to?
What size enclosures are you thinking about?
What size room?
Are you good at woodwork?
What is keeping you from purchasing larger drivers that still fall into your price range like the Fostex FE167 or the AudioNirvana drivers?
Josh
Mostly classical, but all sorts are a possibility.
My living room is about 12'x24'.
I have a tablesaw and router, so anything boxish shouldn't be much trouble.
As to size, I'm just drawn to the smaller form factors. Perhaps I'm making things too difficult by pushing this parameter? Bigger designs that I've considered are MLK's virtual project for the fe206e or even the Dayton III mtm. In the end, it really is about the sound ... and I don't really move all that often.
My living room is about 12'x24'.
I have a tablesaw and router, so anything boxish shouldn't be much trouble.
As to size, I'm just drawn to the smaller form factors. Perhaps I'm making things too difficult by pushing this parameter? Bigger designs that I've considered are MLK's virtual project for the fe206e or even the Dayton III mtm. In the end, it really is about the sound ... and I don't really move all that often.
I guess those could be a good start:
http://www.timn8er.com/alegria_audio_rosa_tl.htm
You can still add a sub later if needed at all.
http://www.timn8er.com/alegria_audio_rosa_tl.htm
You can still add a sub later if needed at all.
That's a great little speaker (even if I do say so myself) and if you have placement options you could do the Planet10 variation and make it a bipole. The amount of output increase with the dual 125s is more than you might expect.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/P10-FR125-bipole-MLTL-map.gif
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/P10-FR125-bipole-MLTL-map.gif
Trimblepa,
You might consider my versus of a bipole ML-TL for the FR125S and WR125S drivers. CSS (www.creativesound.ca) has a parts kit for $260 and plans are available from Dave D's site at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
Click on the picture of my speakers and you bring up the plans. Others have offer positive comments about them after listening to them. The boxes are easy to build and the results are rewarding. Plus they have bass vs. the Fostex alternative that you mentioned!
Jim
You might consider my versus of a bipole ML-TL for the FR125S and WR125S drivers. CSS (www.creativesound.ca) has a parts kit for $260 and plans are available from Dave D's site at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
Click on the picture of my speakers and you bring up the plans. Others have offer positive comments about them after listening to them. The boxes are easy to build and the results are rewarding. Plus they have bass vs. the Fostex alternative that you mentioned!
Jim
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trimblepa said:
trimblepa,
My first project was using the wr125 and turned out quite well. They have quite a bit of bass, but I was not satisfied with the effeciency. I recently built a pair of speakers using pioneer 8" drivers. These things have real bass. My room is 12x12 but this is plenty of bass, no need for any kind of subwoofer intergration. They were also more efficient, which I like a lot.
Since your only working with 30watts and you've got a big room I would try for a 6.5" or 8" If not fostex try
Audio Nirvana . If you've got those tools you can probably build a BLH (if your up to the challenge) and really get some bass in your room. I have heard great things about the Dallas II design. I've also heard good things about the Bass reflex recomended Fostex design for the fe167, the small box that vents through the stand. There are plenty of designs out there and if I were you, I would test your skills. You may even want to try out something simple and then build a refrence system after you know what you can do.
If you like the fr125 idea I would suggest going with the bipole.
Although the fe127 doesn't have as much bass, I prefer its sound over the wr125.
2cents
Josh
The FE127 & the FR125 are both excellent, but really 2 different beasts.
In the end the choice of what is best, besides cost, comes down to what amp you are using, and how much effort you can put into the box.
FE127 really shines with tube amps -- particularily SE amps. It is a struggle to get solid bass out of them.
The FR125 doesn't like the SE tube amps particularily but sounds find with even a mediocre SS HT receiver (don't even think of using the FE127 here). It also seems to do best in simpler boxes (7-15 litre sealed or aperiodic). Most of the ported boxes i've heard them in have too much bass, and i end up stuffing the port(s) to make them aperiodic.
Now if i could get the bass of an FR/WR 125, and the mid/top of an FE108ES (along with its efficiency) i'd be a happy camper (and likely spending 4x as much as a pair of either)
dave
In the end the choice of what is best, besides cost, comes down to what amp you are using, and how much effort you can put into the box.
FE127 really shines with tube amps -- particularily SE amps. It is a struggle to get solid bass out of them.
The FR125 doesn't like the SE tube amps particularily but sounds find with even a mediocre SS HT receiver (don't even think of using the FE127 here). It also seems to do best in simpler boxes (7-15 litre sealed or aperiodic). Most of the ported boxes i've heard them in have too much bass, and i end up stuffing the port(s) to make them aperiodic.
Now if i could get the bass of an FR/WR 125, and the mid/top of an FE108ES (along with its efficiency) i'd be a happy camper (and likely spending 4x as much as a pair of either)
dave
it's about the midrange Bob!
and when done correctly, eliminating the need for a crossover of any order
as for the complexity of cabinet -i.e. BLH / multichambered BR/ bandpass/ parallel TLs (a la Hegeman/Morrison) etc, etc. - that shouldn't be a problem for any worthy DIY or his symbiote.
now selling the idea to the wife / GF, that's an entirely different skillset
and when done correctly, eliminating the need for a crossover of any order
as for the complexity of cabinet -i.e. BLH / multichambered BR/ bandpass/ parallel TLs (a la Hegeman/Morrison) etc, etc. - that shouldn't be a problem for any worthy DIY or his symbiote.
now selling the idea to the wife / GF, that's an entirely different skillset
planet10 said:
As for too much bass, I really must be missing something. I've built the FR125 with the Oniken cab design (as suggested on site) and find that the bass is not overbearing whatsoever. In fact I still prefer having my subwoofer integrated into the mix.
The midrange and highs are quite nice, but bass, from my perspective, is lacking. I still maintain to obtain proper bass you need a large woofer (physics). I perfer a seperate subwoofer as there is a lot better control for integration and the ability to supply adequate power to drive the subwoofer.
but that is what diy is all about. you can fulfill your particular needs.
MCH said:
By too much bass, i mean a hump in the 60-120 Hz range. How this plays is VERY room (and taste) dependent.
I too am using the miniOs with a sub. miniOs made aperiodic so that they are smoothly rolling off in the 70-75 Hz range. This has the effect of allowing the mids to be a bit better under dynamic conditions.
It is very nice to see so many designs for these beauties (and i have more coming). Hopefully something for everyone.
dave
my turn to throw a thought or two into the mix.
I have both the WR125 as a bipole and as a mono pole. I have a tweeter integrated to help the top end of both of them. For my room, my amp, and my wifes taste the bipole is by far the best.
I also have a set of bipole fe127 in a TQWP these are great when played by the 3/4 watt spud amp and foreplay preamp I have on loan. The midrange is as Chris says great. Yah it is a little light on the bass but I use a cheap sub rolled in at 50 htz or so. The sound stage is huge and fills the room. Very involving and relaxing.
I also have a set of fe167 in a MLTL based on Bob Brines FT1600, I love this set as they were the first member of the family and hold a special place. Efficient and very smooth in the mid range.
My favorite amongs the family fleet, well I will not go there because it might mean I have to let some of the family go. My suggestion is to start with something then build again, and again and keep building until you get it right (which will never do by the way).
Right now I have the WR125 bipoles set up with the SS amp and have been listening to some nice Jazz by Micheal Kaeshammer. It sounds great to me.... This weekend I will set up the fe127 bipoles and the tube gear for a while. ( It has to go home soon, too bad it has been real nice listening to it.) In my room 14x24x22tall the bipoles are greater than great.
Good luck
Sorry I was no real help but it fun telling the story anyway! Glad my wife likes music.
I have both the WR125 as a bipole and as a mono pole. I have a tweeter integrated to help the top end of both of them. For my room, my amp, and my wifes taste the bipole is by far the best.
I also have a set of bipole fe127 in a TQWP these are great when played by the 3/4 watt spud amp and foreplay preamp I have on loan. The midrange is as Chris says great. Yah it is a little light on the bass but I use a cheap sub rolled in at 50 htz or so. The sound stage is huge and fills the room. Very involving and relaxing.
I also have a set of fe167 in a MLTL based on Bob Brines FT1600, I love this set as they were the first member of the family and hold a special place. Efficient and very smooth in the mid range.
My favorite amongs the family fleet, well I will not go there because it might mean I have to let some of the family go. My suggestion is to start with something then build again, and again and keep building until you get it right (which will never do by the way).
Right now I have the WR125 bipoles set up with the SS amp and have been listening to some nice Jazz by Micheal Kaeshammer. It sounds great to me.... This weekend I will set up the fe127 bipoles and the tube gear for a while. ( It has to go home soon, too bad it has been real nice listening to it.) In my room 14x24x22tall the bipoles are greater than great.
Good luck
Sorry I was no real help but it fun telling the story anyway! Glad my wife likes music.
fe127
The fe127 likes to have a current type amp. Nelson Pass published a great article regarding this and does a very nice job of explaining things. Check out his site or the Audio Express site. If you already have them, you may chose to mate them with a bass driver set up to augment the lower end. They really do sound nice in the mid range. For most acoustic music they are fine and I wuite like them. If you expect them to play deep bass and rattle your liver well then you might have misinterpreted some of the information.
Cal:
you are very right about Micheal Kaeshammer. I went to a great show here in last week. We were fifth row, centre seats. Had a great two hour+ show. He can play piano like no one else. his trio was tight and hot. The Bass player was quite pleasing to look at as well.
The celebration of my getting more ancient was real fun, the nieces and nephew are growing up fast. My mom is happy and healthy.
The fe127 likes to have a current type amp. Nelson Pass published a great article regarding this and does a very nice job of explaining things. Check out his site or the Audio Express site. If you already have them, you may chose to mate them with a bass driver set up to augment the lower end. They really do sound nice in the mid range. For most acoustic music they are fine and I wuite like them. If you expect them to play deep bass and rattle your liver well then you might have misinterpreted some of the information.
Cal:
you are very right about Micheal Kaeshammer. I went to a great show here in last week. We were fifth row, centre seats. Had a great two hour+ show. He can play piano like no one else. his trio was tight and hot. The Bass player was quite pleasing to look at as well.
The celebration of my getting more ancient was real fun, the nieces and nephew are growing up fast. My mom is happy and healthy.
Re: what if i have 2 fe127s and no tube amp?
I built some fe127s for a friend of mine using GM's MLTL design. They turned out very well. I also gave my friend a HK solid state amp I got for free. They sound great, I'm sure not nearly as nice as a tube amp, but I wouldn't be turned off of the project just because of your amplifier. If you have the speakers build some enclosures for them, If you don't like them (AFTER the break in) sell them. Give them a try. All you need to do is spend $15 on wood and you have GM's design. It may not have all the bass you want. but there are other designs for more bass. I myself have found 2 or 3 different BLH plans on the internet.
Here is my thread about the fe127
Josh
roystr said:
I built some fe127s for a friend of mine using GM's MLTL design. They turned out very well. I also gave my friend a HK solid state amp I got for free. They sound great, I'm sure not nearly as nice as a tube amp, but I wouldn't be turned off of the project just because of your amplifier. If you have the speakers build some enclosures for them, If you don't like them (AFTER the break in) sell them. Give them a try. All you need to do is spend $15 on wood and you have GM's design. It may not have all the bass you want. but there are other designs for more bass. I myself have found 2 or 3 different BLH plans on the internet.
Here is my thread about the fe127
Josh
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