Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?

[dmason]

There were several opinions from European DIY'ers who strongly felt the Supra 215RTF64 was by far the pick of the litter, with great SPL, and very wide band. I bought the "wrong" Supravox; back they go for an exchange for the RTF, which happily is exactly the same price.

[blumenco]

Originally posted by dmason
Could it actually be possible that a $10 Czech made ceiling driver is responsible for the wide acclaim given the Acuhorns from Audio Clubs across Europe?? The models on the Czech site certainly look like the Monacor, with that unique cowling behind the cone. I have a feeling this firm does this line of 200mm drivers for Monacor. ...Doesn't look too advantageous a shape that cowling, however. Something might not be right. Perhaps the Acuhorn company has drivers built to spec. On the other hand, the parameters suggest something that reflects an Acuhorn performance.

An inverted BIB has popped up on the market, the Maxxhorn, www.maxxhorn.com which uses the same basic design, inverted, this would be analogous to upside down BIB, or Acuhorn 125. It uses the PHL 1240 coaxial driver. Our idea excels because without crossovers, there is no need for V-Caps or coils. I am sure the PHL is a tasty choice, very fine transducers. They damn well better be, because the "introductory" pricing is -- get this: $8,600. That's eight thousand six hundred dollars for a suboptimal BIB design with crossovers, sand, copper funnels, circuit suicide, and ....proprietary BassMaxx technology. As if we need that. So, there is another argument in favor of DIY!!

Perhaps we can get some comments about lining the insides. I lined one side of the BIB, and a bit of foam on the interior baffle behind the driver, that is it. What did every/anyone else use? Clark?

I have been using a few p-16 hp sound reflectors in my fx120 horns. they work real nice to tighten up the bass. real sub woo-ha effect. i have yet to try much in the way of damping. I will soon though. I installed the fe108esII pair i had laying around. these are nuuuts. not as much good bass though. cleaner, but not as flat. I will try damping. so we would need a different cabinet for these drivers if it was a purpose built enclosure for the ESIIs. the ESIIs need swans really.

as far as dampiing goes, i tend to be afraid of it. the damping i install that actually stays is usually the wool strip type on the magnet structure. and i use very little of it there even. a good horn don't need to much damping. internal sand, p-16s, etc. sure. stuffing be de devil in my opinion.


alright y'all... I need advice...

so i am going to build the 166 es-r BIB ceiling horns this weekend. I was going to use the cabinet built for 168es driver(?) it is labeled on zilla's site as 168s. 64/7/15.75 height 35 internal baffle 6.75.

3/4 inch ply, and i forget, are these internal or external dimentions that we are listing on zilla's site?

thanks y'alll/


Clark

[Godzilla]

Hi there!

I was just drawing out the dims for my 168S so I can cut up some wood this coming weekend at home depot.

I also drew out dims for the Tangband 4� bamboos… all very exciting!

As for dims for the 168ES they are as follows (thanks Scott!):
Line length 128in. Driver 25.5in down from So. Sm=74.25in^2

These are inner dims!

This produces a speaker that’s 64� tall. You can change the width/depth to whatever suits your taste. For example: for my 168S (which scott simmed to have the same Sm for both the 168S and 168ES) I chose inner dims of 7.75 x 9.75 = 75.6�… (close enough to the 74.25 IMO to work). You may choose to be more exact in which case you could use the dims of 7.75� x 9.581� = 74.253� It is your choice to go wider or deeper. This is all part of the fun!

The dims for the 166ES-R are different. They are:

Line length 136in, driver 27.25in down from So, Sm=87.75in^2

This is a 68� tall speaker that is could be wider and deeper. 7.75 x 11.322 = 87.75. Slightly taller and deeper cabinet than for the 168ES.

Please don't scroll to look at the sims low down on the BIB homepage... I will remove them soon... they are not accurate.

Sims look to be nearly identical in shape both reaching about 35hz before rolling off.

I hope this makes sense? I will try to get all the designs Scott simmed up this week on the site. I have several more. Please be patient! Also, as I build my BIB’s over the next few months I will take detailed pictures of the construction and post those too.

http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp

[dmason]

I have thought for awhile the esr might make an astounding BIB driver. I wanted to do this but sold the GarageHorns several months ago; Clark,-- be sure to apprise us of not only the result, but also the journey. How many wpc do you recommend for the little FX120? PP EL34 should give ~15wpc?

Sounds like Professor Wiggins will be rolling out some of the good stuff, properly cured, soon, useful here, like an outstanding 6"... very exciting.

[fred76]

Originally posted by dmason
There were several opinions from European DIY'ers who strongly felt the Supra 215RTF64 was by far the pick of the litter, with great SPL, and very wide band. I bought the "wrong" Supravox; back they go for an exchange for the RTF, which happily is exactly the same price.

Yeah. And the 165GMF has the same price as the RTF64 "Bicone".

I'm pretty eager to know what would be the dims for the RTF64 Widerange.

[blumenco]

Originally posted by dmason
I have thought for awhile the esr might make an astounding BIB driver. I wanted to do this but sold the GarageHorns several months ago; Clark,-- be sure to apprise us of not only the result, but also the journey. How many wpc do you recommend for the little FX120? PP EL34 should give ~15wpc?

Sounds like Professor Wiggins will be rolling out some of the good stuff, properly cured, soon, useful here, like an outstanding 6"... very exciting.

yeah... el84 pp does put out around 15 wpc. through those fx 120 speakers, it was loud enough for 10 people to dance real crazy like. I also use the amp as the high frequency amp (through fe 206e) in a PA system terry cain built for me a little while ago. if you actively eq 250 and below out, the amp will get really really really loud with acceptable distortion.

yeah, I do have to reccommend the fx 120 for those of you who are bored and stuff. it is a remarkable driver, especially in the cabinets, for the price, etc. the only disadvantages are upper volume limit and of course inefficiency inherent in these smaller more damped drivers. for alot of my freinds it is their favourite speaker that has ever passed through my place. the inefficiency thing was killing my sex amp though. so it was hard to really get an idea of what the absolute fidelity was like.

If i had a wand that posessed a single magical power it would be the "efficiency wand." i would be able to point it at any speaker and make it instantaneously 102db efficient. ahhh to dream...

the fx120 to me would be ideally suited in studio monitors, which would not be a BIB cabinet i guess... so there you go. it sounded very good don't get me wrong, but in the end, the fx 120 is simply not a horn driver (blh). at least it is not quite as well suited as the actual horn drivers that fostex makes. I don't know how else to put it than that. the FE108ESII I put in the same horn is divine. course, these two drivers are simply in different leagues. I consider the ESII to be the orpheus headphone of full range drivers. limitless and effortless detail abounds.

I have found that I do in fact prefer the banana pulp stuff from fostex in general. it takes a year or more of real world use for most of the drivers to break in but such refinement and purity of tone lies at the end of the journey to make it all worth it.

by the way, I am not sure exactly how to interpret the dims that you gave me godzilla... could you put them into more lay terms? thanks a ton!!!

[blumenco]

Originally posted by Godzilla
Hi there!

I was just drawing out the dims for my 168S so I can cut up some wood this coming weekend at home depot.

I also drew out dims for the Tangband 4� bamboos… all very exciting!

As for dims for the 168ES they are as follows (thanks Scott!):
Line length 128in. Driver 25.5in down from So. Sm=74.25in^2

These are inner dims!

This produces a speaker that’s 64� tall. You can change the width/depth to whatever suits your taste. For example: for my 168S (which scott simmed to have the same Sm for both the 168S and 168ES) I chose inner dims of 7.75 x 9.75 = 75.6�… (close enough to the 74.25 IMO to work). You may choose to be more exact in which case you could use the dims of 7.75� x 9.581� = 74.253� It is your choice to go wider or deeper. This is all part of the fun!

The dims for the 166ES-R are different. They are:

Line length 136in, driver 27.25in down from So, Sm=87.75in^2

This is a 68� tall speaker that is could be wider and deeper. 7.75 x 11.322 = 87.75. Slightly taller and deeper cabinet than for the 168ES.

Please don't scroll to look at the sims low down on the BIB homepage... I will remove them soon... they are not accurate.

Sims look to be nearly identical in shape both reaching about 35hz before rolling off.

I hope this makes sense? I will try to get all the designs Scott simmed up this week on the site. I have several more. Please be patient! Also, as I build my BIB’s over the next few months I will take detailed pictures of the construction and post those too.

http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp

so for the 166es-r, i get that the cabinet height is 68 inches, that the driver sits 27.25 inches down from the top, but where does the internal baffle lie, and what is the reccommended width and depth internally? thanks a ton.

and I will try my best to document the construction process I do not have a digital camera, but I will see what I can do.

good luck with your 168es godzilla...those should be sooooo killer. the thing that really gets me about the special edition fostex stuff is that everyone always talks about the extra bass and stuff from them that the huge magnet provides. the detail, however especially of the effortless and tear wrenching and tube amp blooming kind is absolutely addictive though. the special edition fostex stuff to me is no more akin to normal fostex than altec voice of the theatre to peavey in a way. maybe to some it is not that drastic though...

Clark

[Godzilla]

http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp

Here is a diagram (not to scale) of a BIB.

>>> so for the 166es-r, i get that the cabinet height is 68 inches, that the driver sits 27.25 inches down from the top,

Correct!


>>> but where does the internal baffle lie, and what is the reccommended width and depth internally? thanks a ton.

My pleasure!

When you multiply the width x depth you get the Sm.

For the 166es-r Sm = 87.75 inches. You can use any inner dims that give you 87.75. For example 7.75 wide x 11.322 deep = 87.75.

[Scottmoose]

Well, I'd do it like this for your ES-Rs (you lucky, lucky... ;-). It'll give you a mouth are about 1/3 of a square inch larger than I calculated, which won't make a scrap of difference, and should be easier to build. I've tried the ES-R, and it worked superbly, even though the cabinet wasn't optimised.

Internal dimensions: 7.5in wide, 11.75in deep. Terminate the internal baffle 5.875in from the internal front and rear walls, and 5.875in from the internal cabinet base. Jeff's diagram should help there.

Best
Scott

[Godzilla]

This is kinda fun!