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Old 12th April 2007, 02:47 AM   #2791
djn is offline djn  United States
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Two of my favorite hobbies after audio......flyfishing and Jeep FC-170. Cheers.
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Old 12th April 2007, 03:14 AM   #2792
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pit Hinder

I bet we could swap war stories about vented boxes plus DC coupled amps plus wavy LPs and no subsonic filter.
Greets!

Oh yeah, Crown DC300 and Phase Linear 400 amps were lethal! Not to mention Altec's 770 bi-amp system.

GM
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Old 12th April 2007, 03:30 AM   #2793
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Hi GM, since the Alpine drivers I am using in my BIBs handle a min of 40 watts and a max of 200 watts, I am sending them to my daughter with a Crown D150. The Crowns are the Hum-vees of amps. Cheers.
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Old 12th April 2007, 04:44 AM   #2794
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Quote:
Originally posted by djn
Crown D150. The Crowns are the Hum-vees of amps. Cheers.
Maybe a HumVee with no muffler & an oil leak... that was one of the most painful amps i ever heard (especially when used with an IC150)

dave
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Old 12th April 2007, 07:30 AM   #2795
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GM, how come they new how to do it then! and not now! I think maybe they had the time and the resources to knock it down once or twice to get it right! Also its only the best that survived!

It's funny, for what I do, the vibrancy and immediacy of the space is important, not damped, but the reflections tamed. So you can hear detail and text but the beauty of the overtones are not removed. Personally I think they are trying to make venues too big. You can hear when the sound comes back to you a second later, but for that second there is a big black hole when you feel alone and it is very disconcerting, not to mention confusing when text is involved!

Thats how I like my sound system too. I like the energy and sparkle there but reflections tamed...I don't know how to do it though.

oh Coir carpet was nice when I heard it in a room with a system. If that helps.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the fe108's in something that limits their bass excursion a bit and get a sub to help. Metronomes!?

Then I'll do another BIB!!! With something a little larger! har har! ff165k...or something else.... got my eyes on something.

Stroop
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Old 12th April 2007, 09:37 AM   #2796
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Default Re: 8in BIB driver options

Quote:
Originally posted by GregOH1
This is my first post and I have been following this thread and everything related to OB I can find on the net for close to a year. I cannot decide on the ultimate OB . That said, as an obsessive compulsive DIYer , everything from slot cars, flyrods , ground up jeep restoration , first house , etc etc, I need a project.. ..I have spent a zillion hours on diy audio attempting to educate myself related to loudspeakers but the time has come to put the construction background to work and build a BIB.
I have 9 ft. ceilings and would like a dynamic build. My thought was a profile say 8ft or a little less and say 10-12 by 18. However first and foremost is not profile but the music. My understanding is the ff225k is in this range .Although I have yet to see it mentioned in the BIB I understand the 208sigma/ t 90 is a horn favorite of many. If I am gaining little over the popular 165k build please note. I have all the tools available to make a custom build but near brain dead when it comes to the math. I have Paradigm studio 40's now and I want to get away from the " box" ie horns and OB

Thanks in advance

Greg
Hi Greg. The 225K works fine in BIBs, though it needs a tweeter from about 8 - 9KHz. I built a pair for a friend about 18 months back. The 208ESigma, also with tweeter, should do nicely too in the pipe for the 206ES-R & should be somewhat more linear in the bass as it has more excursion. It's certainly the better driver -but so it should be, as it's their flagship unit, ignoring Japan only special editions.
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Old 12th April 2007, 03:51 PM   #2797
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Default Re: 8in BIB driver options

Quote:
Originally posted by GregOH1
That said, as an obsessive compulsive DIYer , everything from slot cars........
Greets!

What class(es)? I was involved at various levels of the hobby/sport from 1960 - 2000 before my eyesight dropped off so much I couldn't follow anything faster than a Playfit racer on a short home track.

GM
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Old 12th April 2007, 04:09 PM   #2798
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Quote:
Originally posted by djn
Hi GM, since the Alpine drivers I am using in my BIBs handle a min of 40 watts and a max of 200 watts, I am sending them to my daughter with a Crown D150. The Crowns are the Hum-vees of amps. Cheers.
Greets!

Seems to me I mentioned this before in your thread, but it's worth repeating.......... you NEVER want to clip a SS amp as it will destroy a driver quicker than anything I know of short of hitting it with a hammer or similar if it doesn't have a bullet-proof limiter ckt., which IIRC correctly the D150 doesn't, so if the drivers are truly rated for 200 W peaks, 3-6 dB headroom is desirable, or at least 400 W.

Anyway, my idea of a 'Hum-Vee' amp would be the QSC USA 900. The abuse I heaped on it made me wonder if it was indestructible, but it finally 'met its match' after ~6 mo. of driving a < 0.9 ohm load to frequent clipping.

GM
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Old 12th April 2007, 04:25 PM   #2799
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God help us Greg! 0.9ohms? What were you running? The most evil load I've ever known was the MK1 Apogee Scintilla dipole ribbons (1ohm). Had similar LF radiating area to 5, 15in bass units, and tragic eficiency. The bloke who owned them was running bridged Krells. 83db at the listening point 12 ft away was about your lot.
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Old 12th April 2007, 04:37 PM   #2800
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by stroop
GM, how come they new how to do it then! and not now! I think maybe they had the time and the resources to knock it down once or twice to get it right! Also its only the best that survived!

Personally I think they are trying to make venues too big.

Thats how I like my sound system too. I like the energy and sparkle there but reflections tamed...I don't know how to do it though.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the fe108's in something that limits their bass excursion a bit and get a sub to help. Metronomes!?
Greets!

Correctomundo! They kept building full size 'proofs-of-concept' until they were satisfied. Now they use sophisticated tools to see how much they can compromise a design and it still perform acceptably, with 'acceptably' being a 'floating' goal dependent on who's paying for it.

Well, it's not so much them being too big as what design tweaks they use to get a desirable reverberant field. I mean look at the Greek amplitheater I linked to, it's outdoors, so doesn't get any bigger than that. Indeed, it's one of the reasons it works so well, there's no delayed LF to throw off your timing/whatever and why good recording/mastering studios go to great lengths to decay away all the reverberant field below a certain frequency dictated by its net Vb, IOW make it acoustically 'feel' like the room is 'big as all outdoors'.

Study up on small room/studio acoustics, starting here: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

I guess if I had a very small room, then loading tiny drivers in acoustically large, but still relatively small pipes would be fine, but to me they're just wide BW mid-ranges that should either be in huge BLHs or BW limited as required in optimum sealed cabs or OB.

GM
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