Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks? - Page 164 - diyAudio
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Old 4th November 2006, 05:14 AM   #1631
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GM,

Whoa! That is one gigantic BIB. Unfortunately, too big as my ceilings aren't even 10 feet high. Okay, I give up on the 604 BIB for now...

Now, the MLTL must be smaller. Any dims and instructions on how to stuff it?

Thanks.
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Old 4th November 2006, 11:20 AM   #1632
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM
IIRC, your room isn't large enough for two.
If the sim you posted is correct, then no, my room is not big enough for even one. No 14' ceilings here.

Quote:
Ditto using Altec woofers in a BIB.
Never said they had to be Altec.

Quote:
As far as woofers mating to the 811, haven't we already been down this 'road'?
Yes indeed. But there was a nasty looking bunch of natives with spears blocking the road. There was simply no pleasing them. So I took off cross country and went to the beach, instead.
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Old 4th November 2006, 11:38 AM   #1633
dmason is offline dmason  United States
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Perhaps ..."inappropriate" would be a better term; Shame it is out of the question, unless someone has a school auditorium. Look at that wonderous FR plot and tell me you wouldnt WANT this to be built. Fabulous biamping with SS and tubes.

Remember, for anyone wanting to use a two way coaxial, there are units that would do the job nicely. B&C make a stunning series of 10 inch coaxials, Ciare, BMS, all have contenders whose performance parameters play into our hands, and 18Sound and Beyma both have high performance 8 inch coaxials designed for studio monitor type speakers. Maybe the Tannoy System 6-8-10-12 coaxials would be a try... Apparently, D Wiggins is working on a hemp cone 10 inch coaxial with XBL^2 motor and higher Q, but who knows. So there are alternatives, to those thinking about something more involved than a wideband driver.

Personally, I find this horn based design combined with the idea of solid state AND tube amplification, along with point source sonics, pretty sexy... the power and the glory.
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Old 4th November 2006, 02:02 PM   #1634
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I want this to be built. Oh yes. I would also like to spend the night with Polly Harvey, but sadly I suspect both will remain a dream.

The Tannoy units in particular do look interesting. Although designed for in-wall / ceiling applications, if Tannoy have had anything to do with them, they shold be pretty good. They haven't gained the reputation they currently have by building junk. Will have to take a look at them properly at some point. As a bonus, you can claim you own a pair of Tannoy DC drivers, without stretching the truth too far. I still miss my 12in Monitor Golds.
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Old 4th November 2006, 03:23 PM   #1635
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Quote:
Originally posted by ultrakaz
Whoa! That is one gigantic BIB.

Now, the MLTL must be smaller. Any dims and instructions on how to stuff it?

Thanks.
Greets!

What did you expect? A true BIB loads to an octave below Fs and all these vintage drivers have a low Fs, Qts, high Vas to keep efficiency high enough to match to low power/high output impedance systems. At ~68 ft^3 gross, it would have to be folded up similar to a K-horn and be at least 6 ft tall, but corner loaded, a pair wouldn't take up all that much usable room 'real estate', creating a 'wall of sound'. From a construction POV, it would need to be folded such that it could be tied (stacked) together vertically as three modules to make moving/installing/removing them a 'one person with a handtruck' affair through a typical width doorway.

Anyway, the room would have to be acoustically large enough to justify such a low tuning or you'd wind up attenuating too much of its sub BW output due to room gain, so the 'it's too big' argument isn't applicable per se since it's all about scale.

The MLTLs I've done range from ~10-27 ft^3 net depending on the system's output impedance and room size, etc., though obviously it can be scaled to whatever half space F3 or size you're willing to accept, so email me your performance criteria/limitations. Stuffing is minimal at most and historically folks wind up using even < what I would use or MJK's WS predict for smoothest response, so all I do is suggest a starting point and it will be up to you to find your 'optimum'.

GM
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Old 4th November 2006, 03:50 PM   #1636
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Well, as much as I would like someone to build those monsters (preferably me, but not going to happen in this incarnation ), I knew it would probably remain a 'pipe dream' , so scaling it to a more typical BIB's height/F3 using SS power for the woofer:

L = 138"
CSA = ~660"^2 (recommend ~21.63" W x 30.56" D)
zdriver = 30"

Still large, but at least within the realm of possibly getting built.

GM
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File Type: jpg altec 604 composite - short t.c. bib done in blh ws.jpg (22.8 KB, 564 views)
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Old 4th November 2006, 04:07 PM   #1637
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Quote:
Originally posted by panomaniac
No 14' ceilings here.

Never said they had to be Altec.

There was simply no pleasing them.

Greets!

See my folding notes in post 1635, though if my already dim memory serves me, still way too big, as is the 'short' version I recently posted.

Understood, but all drivers I feel are suitable substitutes will have similar space requirements.

Regrettably, my memory of the thread is too dim to have a clue what you're alluding to........

GM
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Old 4th November 2006, 04:23 PM   #1638
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Quote:
Originally posted by dmason
Remember, for anyone wanting to use a two way coaxial, there are units that would do the job nicely. B&C........

Personally, I find this horn based design combined with the idea of solid state AND tube amplification, along with point source sonics, pretty sexy... the power and the glory.
Greets!

Correctomundo, we need to use more current drivers with a higher Fs, lower Vas optimized for small cabs and ancillary sub systems, so B&C 12CXB or similar.

Yep, the best of both 'worlds' to some, though I prefer bi-amped zero -fb (or at least minimal as worst case) SS since no reasonable size/cost SET can give me truly 'live' dynamics at vanishingly low distortion.

GM
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:07 AM   #1639
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Default go look at Onur's site...

Onur used one of the (sadly now not available) 8" coax designs in his Singular design and achieved 28 Hz with significant output. There is also the Radian 8" coax to consider with many users who praise it much. Regards Moray James.
http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~ilkorur/
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Old 5th November 2006, 01:41 AM   #1640
dmason is offline dmason  United States
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The Radian, tonally, would be spectacular in a BIB; Four years ago GM calc'd, and I built an MLTL for the Radian 508, which had a wonderful sound to it, but very little bass, and a very big 60 inch? tall cabinet. The Fs=73 on this unit.

The Tannoy iW8, or System 800, would be my vote. I suspect they are the same driver. Also, there is the Beyma 8CX with low Fs, buckets of Xmax.
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