dmason said:
I have been using a few p-16 hp sound reflectors in my fx120 horns. they work real nice to tighten up the bass. real sub woo-ha effect. i have yet to try much in the way of damping. I will soon though. I installed the fe108esII pair i had laying around. these are nuuuts. not as much good bass though. cleaner, but not as flat. I will try damping. so we would need a different cabinet for these drivers if it was a purpose built enclosure for the ESIIs. the ESIIs need swans really.
as far as dampiing goes, i tend to be afraid of it. the damping i install that actually stays is usually the wool strip type on the magnet structure. and i use very little of it there even. a good horn don't need to much damping. internal sand, p-16s, etc. sure. stuffing be de devil in my opinion.
alright y'all... I need advice...
so i am going to build the 166 es-r BIB ceiling horns this weekend. I was going to use the cabinet built for 168es driver(?) it is labeled on zilla's site as 168s. 64/7/15.75 height 35 internal baffle 6.75.
3/4 inch ply, and i forget, are these internal or external dimentions that we are listing on zilla's site?
thanks y'alll/
Clark
Hi there!
I was just drawing out the dims for my 168S so I can cut up some wood this coming weekend at home depot.
I also drew out dims for the Tangband 4” bamboos… all very exciting!
As for dims for the 168ES they are as follows (thanks Scott!):
Line length 128in. Driver 25.5in down from So. Sm=74.25in^2
These are inner dims!
This produces a speaker that’s 64” tall. You can change the width/depth to whatever suits your taste. For example: for my 168S (which scott simmed to have the same Sm for both the 168S and 168ES) I chose inner dims of 7.75 x 9.75 = 75.6”… (close enough to the 74.25 IMO to work). You may choose to be more exact in which case you could use the dims of 7.75” x 9.581” = 74.253” It is your choice to go wider or deeper. This is all part of the fun!
The dims for the 166ES-R are different. They are:
Line length 136in, driver 27.25in down from So, Sm=87.75in^2
This is a 68” tall speaker that is could be wider and deeper. 7.75 x 11.322 = 87.75. Slightly taller and deeper cabinet than for the 168ES.
Please don't scroll to look at the sims low down on the BIB homepage... I will remove them soon... they are not accurate.
Sims look to be nearly identical in shape both reaching about 35hz before rolling off.
I hope this makes sense? I will try to get all the designs Scott simmed up this week on the site. I have several more. Please be patient! Also, as I build my BIB’s over the next few months I will take detailed pictures of the construction and post those too.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
I was just drawing out the dims for my 168S so I can cut up some wood this coming weekend at home depot.
I also drew out dims for the Tangband 4” bamboos… all very exciting!
As for dims for the 168ES they are as follows (thanks Scott!):
Line length 128in. Driver 25.5in down from So. Sm=74.25in^2
These are inner dims!
This produces a speaker that’s 64” tall. You can change the width/depth to whatever suits your taste. For example: for my 168S (which scott simmed to have the same Sm for both the 168S and 168ES) I chose inner dims of 7.75 x 9.75 = 75.6”… (close enough to the 74.25 IMO to work). You may choose to be more exact in which case you could use the dims of 7.75” x 9.581” = 74.253” It is your choice to go wider or deeper. This is all part of the fun!
The dims for the 166ES-R are different. They are:
Line length 136in, driver 27.25in down from So, Sm=87.75in^2
This is a 68” tall speaker that is could be wider and deeper. 7.75 x 11.322 = 87.75. Slightly taller and deeper cabinet than for the 168ES.
Please don't scroll to look at the sims low down on the BIB homepage... I will remove them soon... they are not accurate.
Sims look to be nearly identical in shape both reaching about 35hz before rolling off.
I hope this makes sense? I will try to get all the designs Scott simmed up this week on the site. I have several more. Please be patient! Also, as I build my BIB’s over the next few months I will take detailed pictures of the construction and post those too.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
I have thought for awhile the esr might make an astounding BIB driver. I wanted to do this but sold the GarageHorns several months ago; Clark,-- be sure to apprise us of not only the result, but also the journey. How many wpc do you recommend for the little FX120? PP EL34 should give ~15wpc?
Sounds like Professor Wiggins will be rolling out some of the good stuff, properly cured, soon, useful here, like an outstanding 6"... very exciting.
Sounds like Professor Wiggins will be rolling out some of the good stuff, properly cured, soon, useful here, like an outstanding 6"... very exciting.
dmason said:
yeah... el84 pp does put out around 15 wpc. through those fx 120 speakers, it was loud enough for 10 people to dance real crazy like. I also use the amp as the high frequency amp (through fe 206e) in a PA system terry cain built for me a little while ago. if you actively eq 250 and below out, the amp will get really really really loud with acceptable distortion.
yeah, I do have to reccommend the fx 120 for those of you who are bored and stuff. it is a remarkable driver, especially in the cabinets, for the price, etc. the only disadvantages are upper volume limit and of course inefficiency inherent in these smaller more damped drivers. for alot of my freinds it is their favourite speaker that has ever passed through my place. the inefficiency thing was killing my sex amp though. so it was hard to really get an idea of what the absolute fidelity was like.
If i had a wand that posessed a single magical power it would be the "efficiency wand." i would be able to point it at any speaker and make it instantaneously 102db efficient. ahhh to dream...
the fx120 to me would be ideally suited in studio monitors, which would not be a BIB cabinet i guess... so there you go. it sounded very good don't get me wrong, but in the end, the fx 120 is simply not a horn driver (blh). at least it is not quite as well suited as the actual horn drivers that fostex makes. I don't know how else to put it than that. the FE108ESII I put in the same horn is divine. course, these two drivers are simply in different leagues. I consider the ESII to be the orpheus headphone of full range drivers. limitless and effortless detail abounds.
I have found that I do in fact prefer the banana pulp stuff from fostex in general. it takes a year or more of real world use for most of the drivers to break in but such refinement and purity of tone lies at the end of the journey to make it all worth it.
by the way, I am not sure exactly how to interpret the dims that you gave me godzilla... could you put them into more lay terms? thanks a ton!!!
Godzilla said:
so for the 166es-r, i get that the cabinet height is 68 inches, that the driver sits 27.25 inches down from the top, but where does the internal baffle lie, and what is the reccommended width and depth internally? thanks a ton.
and I will try my best to document the construction process I do not have a digital camera, but I will see what I can do.
good luck with your 168es godzilla...those should be sooooo killer. the thing that really gets me about the special edition fostex stuff is that everyone always talks about the extra bass and stuff from them that the huge magnet provides. the detail, however especially of the effortless and tear wrenching and tube amp blooming kind is absolutely addictive though. the special edition fostex stuff to me is no more akin to normal fostex than altec voice of the theatre to peavey in a way. maybe to some it is not that drastic though...
Clark
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
Here is a diagram (not to scale) of a BIB.
>>> so for the 166es-r, i get that the cabinet height is 68 inches, that the driver sits 27.25 inches down from the top,
Correct!
>>> but where does the internal baffle lie, and what is the reccommended width and depth internally? thanks a ton.
My pleasure!
When you multiply the width x depth you get the Sm.
For the 166es-r Sm = 87.75 inches. You can use any inner dims that give you 87.75. For example 7.75 wide x 11.322 deep = 87.75.
Here is a diagram (not to scale) of a BIB.
>>> so for the 166es-r, i get that the cabinet height is 68 inches, that the driver sits 27.25 inches down from the top,
Correct!
>>> but where does the internal baffle lie, and what is the reccommended width and depth internally? thanks a ton.
My pleasure!
When you multiply the width x depth you get the Sm.
For the 166es-r Sm = 87.75 inches. You can use any inner dims that give you 87.75. For example 7.75 wide x 11.322 deep = 87.75.
Well, I'd do it like this for your ES-Rs (you lucky, lucky... ;-). It'll give you a mouth are about 1/3 of a square inch larger than I calculated, which won't make a scrap of difference, and should be easier to build. I've tried the ES-R, and it worked superbly, even though the cabinet wasn't optimised.
Internal dimensions: 7.5in wide, 11.75in deep. Terminate the internal baffle 5.875in from the internal front and rear walls, and 5.875in from the internal cabinet base. Jeff's diagram should help there.
Best
Scott
Internal dimensions: 7.5in wide, 11.75in deep. Terminate the internal baffle 5.875in from the internal front and rear walls, and 5.875in from the internal cabinet base. Jeff's diagram should help there.
Best
Scott
GM said:
Heading back a bit, this was a sim GM did for the Ascendant Assassin 10 in a ML BIB. I just wanted to make sure I had the details correct.
CSA is 2x TC's original, thus 110 sq. in. not counting the divider? Driver height is 39". Port is 8" diameter by 8" long round tube. Is the port inside or outside the mouth? My only concern is whether the driver will be too deep to fit (interferance with the divider). I haven't drawn it out yet, but it seems like it will be close if not impossible. Of course, it could be turned around right?
thanks,
Paul
pjanda1 said:
Greets!
Correct.
It's 30" i.d. from the pointy end.
Right.
Outside, since it's firing up at the ceiling, so turning it upside down is problematic if a huge vent tube sticking out into the room or along a side wall is a SAF deal breaker.
Don't have a clue about driver depth other than you can drop it down to ~39" without it unduly affecting the sub's intended passband since it's mass loaded.
GM
Hi Godzilla,
Thanks for the "how to build" page.
Could you explain about the Line length more pls? I mean for example, the 'L' for the 168EZ is specified as 128" (10.7'). How would that be interpreted Vs. the simpler description Inside baffle terminates 6.75” from the bottom and centered from the front/back of cabinet. How do I determine the baffle height?
Cool design with the logo url links below it BTW.
Thanks.
Thanks for the "how to build" page.
Could you explain about the Line length more pls? I mean for example, the 'L' for the 168EZ is specified as 128" (10.7'). How would that be interpreted Vs. the simpler description Inside baffle terminates 6.75” from the bottom and centered from the front/back of cabinet. How do I determine the baffle height?
Cool design with the logo url links below it BTW.
Thanks.Hi GM,
Would the RTF64 would have almost as as large if not larger dims than the Hemp 8?
http://www.supravox.fr/haut_parleurs/215_RTF.htm
Would the 165 GMF sim as bad as the 165 LB?
The longest ply available here is 8'.
Thanks!
Would the RTF64 would have almost as as large if not larger dims than the Hemp 8?
http://www.supravox.fr/haut_parleurs/215_RTF.htm
Would the 165 GMF sim as bad as the 165 LB?
The longest ply available here is 8'.
Thanks!
so...
the cabinets i build for the fx120s are still in use in experimental stage with fe108esII. I am eventually building swans for the esIIs, and the FX120s were on loan from a freind. he is now building his own pair of horns for them. nearly identical to the dimensions I used in my horns.
since I am building new horns for 166es-rs, I will no longer need these small horns. their dimensions are
50 inches tall, driver mounted 20 inches down from top. width 5.5, depth, 13.25 (internal) and internal baffle terminates 5.5 inches or so from all sides.
in either case, here is my question: I want to give these speakers to my sister who is at college as a birthday present. What other 5 inch driver would probably be most suitable for this enclosure, and won't break the bank like the fx120s or f120As would.
I am thinking
ff125k
fe126e
fe127e
she listens to alot of MP3s and is an avid music lover. amplification would be sonic impact. the horn cabinets as they are now work well. there is a decent hole in the upper bass, around 100 hz. i like the effect of lower qts on bass quality with them too. upper range tone quality is actually very good in this enclosure as well. so which of these three drivers sounds the least crappy wired with single strand cat5e, or rather, best bang for the buck.
I hear alot of different opinions on all these drivers, and I have heard none of them, whereas I have heard almost all other fostex drivers by now.
the cabinets i build for the fx120s are still in use in experimental stage with fe108esII. I am eventually building swans for the esIIs, and the FX120s were on loan from a freind. he is now building his own pair of horns for them. nearly identical to the dimensions I used in my horns.
since I am building new horns for 166es-rs, I will no longer need these small horns. their dimensions are
50 inches tall, driver mounted 20 inches down from top. width 5.5, depth, 13.25 (internal) and internal baffle terminates 5.5 inches or so from all sides.
in either case, here is my question: I want to give these speakers to my sister who is at college as a birthday present. What other 5 inch driver would probably be most suitable for this enclosure, and won't break the bank like the fx120s or f120As would.
I am thinking
ff125k
fe126e
fe127e
she listens to alot of MP3s and is an avid music lover. amplification would be sonic impact. the horn cabinets as they are now work well. there is a decent hole in the upper bass, around 100 hz. i like the effect of lower qts on bass quality with them too. upper range tone quality is actually very good in this enclosure as well. so which of these three drivers sounds the least crappy wired with single strand cat5e, or rather, best bang for the buck.
I hear alot of different opinions on all these drivers, and I have heard none of them, whereas I have heard almost all other fostex drivers by now.
BIB for the 126/127 is as follows... thanks Scott!
97in line length, driver 19.5in down from So, Sm=43in^2. Alternative with 63in
So you are pretty close actutally.... tho large. I bet your sister would love you even if the dims are too big (depth)... because it will probably sound good enough anyways.
I use the 127e with the SI amp and it works perfectly together.
What a nice brother you are.
97in line length, driver 19.5in down from So, Sm=43in^2. Alternative with 63in
So you are pretty close actutally.... tho large. I bet your sister would love you even if the dims are too big (depth)... because it will probably sound good enough anyways.
I use the 127e with the SI amp and it works perfectly together.
What a nice brother you are.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
More BIB's.... Several more Fostex... Pioneer B20 and some TB's...
Supravox and Monacor to come...
Godzilla
More BIB's.... Several more Fostex... Pioneer B20 and some TB's...
Supravox and Monacor to come...
Godzilla