Scott
I had been running the Welborne Labs 300Bs, (7w) but recently switched to an Audio Zone gainclone prototype running 40w. I found the imaging of the Audio Zone much better than I expected, and I like the extension it provides at both ends of the audio spectrum. Plus, I tend not to have the time required to get the best out of tubes, as they should run for a while when they are turned on, where I can just leave the Audio Zone on all the time.
Layne
I had been running the Welborne Labs 300Bs, (7w) but recently switched to an Audio Zone gainclone prototype running 40w. I found the imaging of the Audio Zone much better than I expected, and I like the extension it provides at both ends of the audio spectrum. Plus, I tend not to have the time required to get the best out of tubes, as they should run for a while when they are turned on, where I can just leave the Audio Zone on all the time.
Layne
Ditto. Last night I switched the 168Sig BIB from 2 SET watts to the battery powered 30 watt Tripath from Red Wine. The overall effect jumped spectacularly; imaging now insane, bass response full and true, and DEEP, very nice indeed. If I were to run a SS amp full time I would likely put about 5Ohm resistor in series, would aid the driver and the amp's FR, which is highly impedance sensitive in the single stage T amps, it seems. Either way, very good sonics. Beautiful presentation, dynamic as hell, and just alot of fun to listen to. Overall though, the Sigmae are happier with lower DF of tubes....but the Audio Zone and Channel Islands GC amps sound very interesting from what people are saying about them, used with WB drivers.
They're open at the top, not the back. A Voigt Pipe could, I suppose, be constructed with a rearward-firing vent, and that could take advantage of a close rear-wall to boost the bass, but I'd avoid the VP and all other So=) pipes as a rule. The BIB appears to work because of the line-length and the position of the mouth at the top of the cabinet, which, when positioned correctly, interacts with the room in a very specific way. The VP doesn't have that facility, hense the rotton sound when compared to other TQWTs that have been properly designed (either the BIB, or something designed using Martin King's MathCad worksheets).
Scott
Scott
I agree with Scott. When considering a pipe and you have choices, I'd highly recommend the BIB over a Voigt. I've heard both and the BIB is much nicer and probably easier to build.
The BIB simply builds on and expands the thinking behind the Voigt. It successfully takes it to the next level.
The BIB simply builds on and expands the thinking behind the Voigt. It successfully takes it to the next level.
Ah yes, the Monacors. I've had a bit of a re-think about those, given some of the comments I've read elsewhere (all positive). Sorry it's been a while -I haven't had much time for the boards or even emails recently -too many family problems I won't bore you with. Thanks for reminding me about those drivers though. The Monacor 5" jobs (nice drivers, especially for the price -everybody should have a pair) should do OK in the original cabinet, although it's a little too large for them, so I suspect boom would be a problem unless they were chronically over-stuffed.
Better bet: if we assume we're going to keep the original 1" build material, I'd select a 13" external depth, keep the original 7" external width. Internal baffle ends 5" from the floor and 5" from the front and rear internal walls. Total line length of 112". Cabinet height (not including base / plinth / whatever) of 56". Driver mounted at 30 3/4" from the base.
Should work nicely.
Cheers
Scott
Better bet: if we assume we're going to keep the original 1" build material, I'd select a 13" external depth, keep the original 7" external width. Internal baffle ends 5" from the floor and 5" from the front and rear internal walls. Total line length of 112". Cabinet height (not including base / plinth / whatever) of 56". Driver mounted at 30 3/4" from the base.
Should work nicely.
Cheers
Scott
BIB's
Well, I like what everyone has said so far and I think I'll build a set of BIB's. Has anyone run any numbers for different drivers though ie: tang band 4", FE103E's or varriants in this price range, buget is an issue. I know these are smaller than Terry's RS 1354's at 6" if I remember right here but would it work?
Mark
Well, I like what everyone has said so far and I think I'll build a set of BIB's. Has anyone run any numbers for different drivers though ie: tang band 4", FE103E's or varriants in this price range, buget is an issue. I know these are smaller than Terry's RS 1354's at 6" if I remember right here but would it work?
Mark
You'll find some dimensions I came up with for the Tang Band Bamboo 4" jobs in one of my earlier posts (post 53 on this thead). With their 3mm Xmax, we could be on to something with those. Same dimensions apply for the FE103E, but in this case, I'd expect the TBs to be the better driver.
Top budget honours in my book at this time go to those Monacor 5" jobs. Nice mid Q, and they cost all of $18US. Can't go wrong really at that price, and I gather our German friends love them to death -they shift more of those than any other full-range driver.
Top budget honours in my book at this time go to those Monacor 5" jobs. Nice mid Q, and they cost all of $18US. Can't go wrong really at that price, and I gather our German friends love them to death -they shift more of those than any other full-range driver.
Bamboo pipe...
Hi Scott!
What size opening would you use for the TB 4" Bamboo cabinet you specked?
Also, since you felt the FE103 would also work in the same cabinet how do you think the Bamboo would work in the Fostex recommended spiral horn?
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/disc_fe_sigma_enc.shtml
TIA,
Godzilla
>>>Try with these cabinet dimensions (assuming 3/4" build material) of: external depth: 10 1/2". External width: 5 1/2". Cabinet height of 60" and an overall line length of 120". Driver mounted 31 1/2" from the base. That's a bit long for them, but the original cabinet was over-long for the RS drivers, and as these Tang Bands have a very considerable 3mm Xmax, they should be OK with the load, and also have enough excursion to produce reasonable bass. I'd guess a cut-off point of around 40Hz in-room -not bad for a little 4" driver methinks. In fact -I think I'll buy a couple myself and give it a whirl. And no, I'm not joking!
Cheers for now
Scott
Hi Scott!
What size opening would you use for the TB 4" Bamboo cabinet you specked?
Also, since you felt the FE103 would also work in the same cabinet how do you think the Bamboo would work in the Fostex recommended spiral horn?
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/disc_fe_sigma_enc.shtml
TIA,
Godzilla
>>>Try with these cabinet dimensions (assuming 3/4" build material) of: external depth: 10 1/2". External width: 5 1/2". Cabinet height of 60" and an overall line length of 120". Driver mounted 31 1/2" from the base. That's a bit long for them, but the original cabinet was over-long for the RS drivers, and as these Tang Bands have a very considerable 3mm Xmax, they should be OK with the load, and also have enough excursion to produce reasonable bass. I'd guess a cut-off point of around 40Hz in-room -not bad for a little 4" driver methinks. In fact -I think I'll buy a couple myself and give it a whirl. And no, I'm not joking!
Cheers for now
Scott
Scottmoose said:
Greets!
FYI, as a general rule it's not a good idea to tune a vented design <~0.707*Fs since it leaves a big hole in the response. In the case of a ~80 Hz driver, this means in the critical midbass where the 'slam' factor of the bass guitar and kick drum is, so better IMO to tune the FE103E around 57 Hz and use a sub if desired. FWIW I calc'd:
L = 81.8"
Sm = 71.38"^2
X0 = L*0.21
GM
Thanks for that, Greg. 
wiz: )
It would be very interesting if you were to have a look at the final TS numbers for the long awaited HempTone 8
www.e-speakers.com I think this one is going to be a winner. If we had great candidates for 5, 6.5, and 8 inch BIBs, the world would be a better place.
The 168 Sigma BIBs sound pretty damn sweet tonight, folks.
wiz: )It would be very interesting if you were to have a look at the final TS numbers for the long awaited HempTone 8
www.e-speakers.com I think this one is going to be a winner. If we had great candidates for 5, 6.5, and 8 inch BIBs, the world would be a better place.
The 168 Sigma BIBs sound pretty damn sweet tonight, folks.
Sounds good to me Greg -you've done it again. It was perhaps a little ambitious...
Oh -regarding that old spiral horn (nice enclosure) with the Tang Band's -possibly is the answer, but I don't pretend to be overly knowledgeable on hybrid TL / horn designs, so there are other people who can advise better on that one.
Best
Scott
Oh -regarding that old spiral horn (nice enclosure) with the Tang Band's -possibly is the answer, but I don't pretend to be overly knowledgeable on hybrid TL / horn designs, so there are other people who can advise better on that one.
Best
Scott
OK...... First off remember I'm a newbie, so how does one tune the FE103 in BIB's to 57hz. Is the hole in the response a cab design issue or an issue with the driver? What would the optimal driver for these be or is there one. Seems there isn't the perfect cab or driver set up. Is this the holy grail of speaker building? I listen to soft & hard rock, folk mostly and to boot these will be powered by a NAD 3020e for the time being.
So I looked at the Monacor's (seems a good price point except for the hole in the response) but getting them to Canada won't be cheap so accessing the US market is much easier if there is a supplier for these. If not how low will the 103 go in the BIB if tuned to 57hz assuming they are placed in the corner or at least a wall (this is the plan). I don't want to use a sub, tuned to 57hz would you really need one? What seems to be the best compromise for this cab staying within a resonable buget?
Mark
So I looked at the Monacor's (seems a good price point except for the hole in the response) but getting them to Canada won't be cheap so accessing the US market is much easier if there is a supplier for these. If not how low will the 103 go in the BIB if tuned to 57hz assuming they are placed in the corner or at least a wall (this is the plan). I don't want to use a sub, tuned to 57hz would you really need one? What seems to be the best compromise for this cab staying within a resonable buget?
Mark
Airframe,
I would recommend the Monacors, as they will give you a very healthy dose of Real Music for Little Dough. Wolfgang, our sympathetic friend at www.spectrumaudio.de is very adept at getting his packages over here without hassle from those at your door. He would email your contract and receipt, leaving them out of the package, so as to avoid duty assessment.
I have it on very good authority from a pro speaker builder that the Monacor 5" is THE 5 inch driver to beat, and is planning on releasing a model employing it, in January. Very full, large, and round tone, abit polite on top, and my bet is that it would be an outstanding choice if you were applying Sand Power to it. Already heard it sucks far less than Fostex, with SS, sounds pretty good with it. Fostex drivers sound far, far better with low damped tube power, or for some reason, T amps. Personally, I would stay away from Fostex drivers if using transistor amps.
I would recommend the Monacors, as they will give you a very healthy dose of Real Music for Little Dough. Wolfgang, our sympathetic friend at www.spectrumaudio.de is very adept at getting his packages over here without hassle from those at your door. He would email your contract and receipt, leaving them out of the package, so as to avoid duty assessment.
I have it on very good authority from a pro speaker builder that the Monacor 5" is THE 5 inch driver to beat, and is planning on releasing a model employing it, in January. Very full, large, and round tone, abit polite on top, and my bet is that it would be an outstanding choice if you were applying Sand Power to it. Already heard it sucks far less than Fostex, with SS, sounds pretty good with it. Fostex drivers sound far, far better with low damped tube power, or for some reason, T amps. Personally, I would stay away from Fostex drivers if using transistor amps.
Fine, but I am referring to "transistor" amps in the same vein as in "transistor radios." This is not referring to Accuphase, or Current Source Amplification. Those types excel. Transistor, like Sony Home Theater, do not. Exceptions: my dying Hafler A/AB 9505 excels with Fostex drivers, sounds almost as good on my GarageHorns as my 2 watt SE T-ube amp using TV oscillator tubes. Ya know? You should hear it. Oh yeah, you have. It's whatever adjusts one's vertical hold.
... unless you have designed the speaker system to work with a SS amp. I have had very good results designing speakers using both Fostex and Lowther drivers and my 200 watt SS amps. Even the one or two dedicated tube users who have heard my system have grudgingly been surprised. Nothing is absolute in audio.
Well my NAD 3020E is hardly top of the line but it is a high current design if I remember correctly, hopefully they will sound good if not my next step is a t-amp or gain clone maybe. I'll try to get a hold of Wolfgang to see about pricing to my door.
PS for all CDN's Hemp FR8's are available at Solen.ca!
MArk
PS for all CDN's Hemp FR8's are available at Solen.ca!
MArk