And what about to rotate BIB for 90* and put driver on one side like a monolith in 2001 A Space Odyssey ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Attachments
zek said:
There is not enough clearance to do that and get the driver at a reasonable height.
Besides that, there is more ripple in the monolith than in the slim profile + wing, that has the additional advantage to get back slim at will (WAF !).
Also, the ability to shape the frequency response is not to be disregarded.
All in all, IMO a wing is a better option, but as almost everything in life, it's a matter of tastes
Gastón
EDIT: completed the post... it went away before it was finished.
zek said:
I actually did try that on some bibs I have, although I had the driver at the height specified by the iBiBk (inverted BIB, with the mouth pointed at floor). So the driver ended up being near the top, by the fold, on the side of the cabinet.
It didn't sound too good. I then actually flipped the cabinet again, so the speaker was on the side, but only about 8 inches or so from the floor. This actually didn't sound too bad, especially for background music. The highs were greatly rolled off, of course, but by tilting the cabinets up against the wall, the drivers pointed back up at the living area, and the radiation from the mouth bounced off the wall... it was not bad, for a while.
Then I read about the importance of the suprabaffle, and the huge difference in the T/S parameters actually measured for the Fe126e (versus manufacturer's specs). I performed surgery on my BIBs to shorten the line length, put the drivers back into their original position, and glued wings onto each side.
Of course, I glued the symmetrical wings on the day before reading the latest updates here about the better sims on asymmetrical wings, so I may be taking a saw to one of the wings someday.
But, I have to say, for right now, this is the best configuration - standard BIB, using the measured (by others) T/S parameters, and ample wings - mine increase the width from 6" to 13".
>>> Godzilla, do you have the wings on both sides on the boxes or just one?
One side only. My BIBs are in the corners of the room. Maybe two inches from the side walls. One of the beautiful things about the wing is that it is totally stealth! I unfold it during listening and fold it back when not in use. I have still not constructed my final set of wings but think they will be 48" tall x 7" wide. Simple. Can that be measured?
Godzilla
One side only. My BIBs are in the corners of the room. Maybe two inches from the side walls. One of the beautiful things about the wing is that it is totally stealth! I unfold it during listening and fold it back when not in use. I have still not constructed my final set of wings but think they will be 48" tall x 7" wide. Simple. Can that be measured?
Godzilla
GM said:
Thanks GM! So I went to Q-Components, and they had the MCWR10A's on sale for cheaper than the 8A's, and I couldn't resist.
They sound nice and have similar specs. However, working out the numbers in the BIB worksheet, they call for HUGE cabinets:
29" deep
20" wide
94" tall
That won't fit standing up in my house
Any suggestions for a good horn or TL or similar enclosure to get the most out of these lovely Canadian drivers? I've looked at the frugel-horn designs etc, but none of them seem to be made for anything like this driver...
Here are the specs:
Outside Dia...........................257 mm
Impedance...............................8 ohm
Power ........................................75 W
Freq. Resp ................37 Hz - 16 KHz
Magnet Wt ................................20 oz
Fs .............................................37 Hz
Qts ..............................................0.41
Qes .............................................0.48
Qms ............................................2.99
Vas ...................................115.5 litres
Voice Coil Dia .........................38 mm
SPL...........................................98 db
Depth ....................................117 mm
Cheers,
Mitch
You're welcome!
Well, to get the drivers down to ~ear height, the 'stock' ~48.78 Hz (Fp = 24.34 Hz) solves the height problem, but due to the medium high Qts and Vas we're still talking a ~27 ft^3 cab, fairly large even by my standards, so it's going to be impossible for these to 'be all they can be' in any reasonable size cab unless you want to buy two more to make them isobaric, assuming you consider a ~13.5 ft^3 cab 'reasonable' as I do.
Here's a modest size Alpha TL that when properly positioned to get some room to fill in the bottom octaves should be OK for most music:
L = 44.44"
W x D (CSA) = 214.985"^2
All dims inside (i.d.) and approximate. Place driver at the top front and the vent cutout = CSA at the bottom. Can be one big hole or spread out around the sides/rear. Make it as wide as practical to reduce/eliminate the need for any BSC. Stuff to 'taste'. Note the sim is 1.0 lb/ft^3 of polyfil.
GM
Well, to get the drivers down to ~ear height, the 'stock' ~48.78 Hz (Fp = 24.34 Hz) solves the height problem, but due to the medium high Qts and Vas we're still talking a ~27 ft^3 cab, fairly large even by my standards, so it's going to be impossible for these to 'be all they can be' in any reasonable size cab unless you want to buy two more to make them isobaric, assuming you consider a ~13.5 ft^3 cab 'reasonable' as I do.
Here's a modest size Alpha TL that when properly positioned to get some room to fill in the bottom octaves should be OK for most music:
L = 44.44"
W x D (CSA) = 214.985"^2
All dims inside (i.d.) and approximate. Place driver at the top front and the vent cutout = CSA at the bottom. Can be one big hole or spread out around the sides/rear. Make it as wide as practical to reduce/eliminate the need for any BSC. Stuff to 'taste'. Note the sim is 1.0 lb/ft^3 of polyfil.
GM
Attachments
208/T90A BIB with Different Amps
Just replying to Benjamin's post.
To be honest I haven't tried different amps with my 208/T90 BIBs but I am very happy with the T-Amp I use. This is the 41HZ Amp11 modified with separate 5v supply and better voltage regs in the 5v section, PIO input caps. This is very much like the red Wine Audio 70 monos but without battery PS (not convinced battery is better if your regs are good). Detail, space, power all wonderful, the AMP11/BIB setup cleary shows changes in other parts of the audio chain.
I would love to try a SET amp like the SEX and even considered buying one. But I am very much taken with the T-Amps, I have a Truepath kit waiting to be built.
And on the cap value. I started with 1uf PIO cap and no attenuation, slowly reducing to current value - comprises 2 Sprague PIO caps in // resulting value .54uF. I was surprised how high the x/over frequency was with this and still clearly hearing the T90 tweets.
Cheers
Just replying to Benjamin's post.
To be honest I haven't tried different amps with my 208/T90 BIBs but I am very happy with the T-Amp I use. This is the 41HZ Amp11 modified with separate 5v supply and better voltage regs in the 5v section, PIO input caps. This is very much like the red Wine Audio 70 monos but without battery PS (not convinced battery is better if your regs are good). Detail, space, power all wonderful, the AMP11/BIB setup cleary shows changes in other parts of the audio chain.
I would love to try a SET amp like the SEX and even considered buying one. But I am very much taken with the T-Amps, I have a Truepath kit waiting to be built.
And on the cap value. I started with 1uf PIO cap and no attenuation, slowly reducing to current value - comprises 2 Sprague PIO caps in // resulting value .54uF. I was surprised how high the x/over frequency was with this and still clearly hearing the T90 tweets.
Cheers
T-amp
Hi, I've just purchased the KingRex T20 for my 168es BIBs and it performs really well. It's early days but it seems to add more body and colour to the sound with no apparent loss of dynamics even though replacing a very well regarded pre/power SS at about 10xprice. Remarkable really and without the recommended PSU. Regards, Andrew
Hi, I've just purchased the KingRex T20 for my 168es BIBs and it performs really well. It's early days but it seems to add more body and colour to the sound with no apparent loss of dynamics even though replacing a very well regarded pre/power SS at about 10xprice. Remarkable really and without the recommended PSU. Regards, Andrew
I just got one too (sans power supply) and it sounds fantastic!!
My Bottlehead 2a3 Paramount / Foreplay setup is better but not by much! I'm really impressed with the Kingrex stuff. I'm using it in my office setup but just brought it home and I'm currently listening over the weekend trhough my Lowther BIBs.
My Bottlehead 2a3 Paramount / Foreplay setup is better but not by much! I'm really impressed with the Kingrex stuff. I'm using it in my office setup but just brought it home and I'm currently listening over the weekend trhough my Lowther BIBs.
BIB Jr.
I am making a BIB for the 127e from some odds and ends.
I have enough material to make the full line length is a use a
Dutchman-- that's tacking on a piece to a length of 45 in to get the
right line length like my original bib.
I call this question BIB Jr. to ask what would be the effect of shortening the line length a bit.?
My width which is precut is 6 3/4 in wide to match the onet I have standing.
I am making a BIB for the 127e from some odds and ends.
I have enough material to make the full line length is a use a
Dutchman-- that's tacking on a piece to a length of 45 in to get the
right line length like my original bib.
I call this question BIB Jr. to ask what would be the effect of shortening the line length a bit.?
My width which is precut is 6 3/4 in wide to match the onet I have standing.
Re: BIB Jr.
Wait. I'm ok. I stuck the ruler down the BIB and the divider is
45".
But there is another BIB Jr. question and that is on the mouth.
My original used the 63^2 dimension with 6 3/4 width and 9.33 depth. I wonder what mixing and matching the
2 given horn throats at Zillaspeak would give together? The goal is actually less bass on the one to give additional presence. I'm always looking for a good balance between crispness and fullness on these.
loninappleton said:
Wait. I'm ok. I stuck the ruler down the BIB and the divider is
45".
But there is another BIB Jr. question and that is on the mouth.
My original used the 63^2 dimension with 6 3/4 width and 9.33 depth. I wonder what mixing and matching the
2 given horn throats at Zillaspeak would give together? The goal is actually less bass on the one to give additional presence. I'm always looking for a good balance between crispness and fullness on these.
hi all,
I've promise to post my opinion on my FF165k BIB with FT17H super tweeter on another thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119842&perpage=25&pagenumber=5
So now after many months of listening to the BIB, i would like to share my impression of it. But before i comment abt the sound, i would like to share a little abt myself. I like to listen heavy stuff like the 80's 90's era hard rock, wind orchestra music (i was in the school band back then), big band jazz, chinese pop and new age tune. Like many of others, i visit live gigs in pubs/club and concert when i have the time.
I always find big speaker like old JBL and klipch horn stuff appealing although i dun listen to many of them. I especially like retro/vintage speaker driver with aluminum dust cap.(eg; D130 which use in many PAs and instrument amps of the good old days). Maybe thats how i get to choose the affortable FF165K driver for my BIB. There are also many folks who has build and comment abt the sound of it.
Although BIB is a simple project, i took almost 6 mths to complete it, due to time and place constraint. (I do not have my own tools and place to build speakers). I really enjoy the learning process of doing my own speaker, especially when i make a mistake and someone experience corrected me.
Ok. now to the sound. A very musical projection of sound, not heard before with many 2 way 3 way comercial speaker <S$1k price range. although when compare to other fostex whizzer cone in BLH, this can be less detail, but it just sounds correct to my ear. I can't say that it is ruler flat freq, but compare to other fostex whizzer cone driver in BLH that i heard (with tube amplification), this one just sounds balance and analog feels.
Even when i place both at corners, i still find there are a certain dip with certain frequency.( I didnt measure, but with my hearing). All this doesn't really affect the overall presentation of the music I listen to, but with modern "Loud Fast" hard rock stuff, they are really missing out on something with the BIB. I guess it applied to all single driver design. There is no way we can compare a single driver design with a multi amplification multi driver system interms of loud and heavy recording projection.
I will post more impression and findings after i try with different amplification and source.
My impression is base on
source: Marantz cd63se
amplification: N.S LM1875/3875 IC & S.T TDA2030 IC chip direct without preamplification.
FT17H super tweeter crossover with 2.2uf matsushita C.cap & a Lpad.
and no exotic cables/wires etc...
Cheers
I've promise to post my opinion on my FF165k BIB with FT17H super tweeter on another thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119842&perpage=25&pagenumber=5
So now after many months of listening to the BIB, i would like to share my impression of it. But before i comment abt the sound, i would like to share a little abt myself. I like to listen heavy stuff like the 80's 90's era hard rock, wind orchestra music (i was in the school band back then), big band jazz, chinese pop and new age tune. Like many of others, i visit live gigs in pubs/club and concert when i have the time.
I always find big speaker like old JBL and klipch horn stuff appealing although i dun listen to many of them. I especially like retro/vintage speaker driver with aluminum dust cap.(eg; D130 which use in many PAs and instrument amps of the good old days). Maybe thats how i get to choose the affortable FF165K driver for my BIB. There are also many folks who has build and comment abt the sound of it.
Although BIB is a simple project, i took almost 6 mths to complete it, due to time and place constraint. (I do not have my own tools and place to build speakers). I really enjoy the learning process of doing my own speaker, especially when i make a mistake and someone experience corrected me.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ok. now to the sound. A very musical projection of sound, not heard before with many 2 way 3 way comercial speaker <S$1k price range. although when compare to other fostex whizzer cone in BLH, this can be less detail, but it just sounds correct to my ear. I can't say that it is ruler flat freq, but compare to other fostex whizzer cone driver in BLH that i heard (with tube amplification), this one just sounds balance and analog feels.
Even when i place both at corners, i still find there are a certain dip with certain frequency.( I didnt measure, but with my hearing). All this doesn't really affect the overall presentation of the music I listen to, but with modern "Loud Fast" hard rock stuff, they are really missing out on something with the BIB. I guess it applied to all single driver design. There is no way we can compare a single driver design with a multi amplification multi driver system interms of loud and heavy recording projection.
I will post more impression and findings after i try with different amplification and source.
My impression is base on
source: Marantz cd63se
amplification: N.S LM1875/3875 IC & S.T TDA2030 IC chip direct without preamplification.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
FT17H super tweeter crossover with 2.2uf matsushita C.cap & a Lpad.
and no exotic cables/wires etc...
Cheers
Naturally. As a general ROT, FR drivers are in principle about the worst possible choice for heavy rock / metal etc. They can still beat a poorly implemented conventional type of 2 way, even on this kind of material, but if this is your music of preference, they aren't the ideal way forward. A couple of 15in woofers crossed in at ~500Hz probably are.
Scottmoose said:
If I were listening to Celtic Frost or Metallica or Venom
I would make another choice as well. Those are few of the loud and fast bands that come to mind.
Reminds me too of a compilation record released on the 80's called
(with tongue in cheek) "Ear Piercing Punk".
For my current BIB I see I have a few recuts to do. How do these things happen? Well running around to another's residence
to do the work for one. Better too long than too short.
A small review is needed
My BIB is a year old or so.
From measuring the one I have regards line length, something looks off.
Is there a place (which I thought there was) where all the
measures are given for the Fostex FE127e? The usual Zilla page I go to has line length of 97. That would mean a divider of 48 plus inches.
Remeasuring, my divider is 45 in. I know I did everything carefully
and that the A-B-C was 4" and my front is 49 1/2.
It's puzzling that these are different. That or I have forgotten something-- always a possibility
This one will have the double baffle board front so the driver clears
the space available at 19.5 in down from top. My width is 6 3/4.
My BIB is a year old or so.
From measuring the one I have regards line length, something looks off.
Is there a place (which I thought there was) where all the
measures are given for the Fostex FE127e? The usual Zilla page I go to has line length of 97. That would mean a divider of 48 plus inches.
Remeasuring, my divider is 45 in. I know I did everything carefully
and that the A-B-C was 4" and my front is 49 1/2.
It's puzzling that these are different. That or I have forgotten something-- always a possibility
This one will have the double baffle board front so the driver clears
the space available at 19.5 in down from top. My width is 6 3/4.
Hi Cheng -
You might look up this thread a little way, to a conversation people are having about wings and baffles. On your speaker you have no "suprabaffle".
My first set of BiBs was like this as well, and I found the sound suitable only for acoustic jazz, chamber music, etc, etc - everything people say about single driver FR speakers.
After adding "wings" to each side which increased the baffle width from 6 inches to 13 inches, the sound, ahem, "grew a pair", and I now find my little Fe126e speakers suitable for all types of music. Not gonna pound you in the chest like real woofers, but it's certainly balanced and satisfactory for anything, up to and including Metallica and Green Day.
My 2 cents is that speakers ought to sound OK at reasonably volume on just about any "type" of music - if they don't, you have a failing in the frequency response somewhere, and my biggest improvements came from putting my BiBs in the corner and adding the suprabaffle wings.
You might look up this thread a little way, to a conversation people are having about wings and baffles. On your speaker you have no "suprabaffle".
My first set of BiBs was like this as well, and I found the sound suitable only for acoustic jazz, chamber music, etc, etc - everything people say about single driver FR speakers.
After adding "wings" to each side which increased the baffle width from 6 inches to 13 inches, the sound, ahem, "grew a pair", and I now find my little Fe126e speakers suitable for all types of music. Not gonna pound you in the chest like real woofers, but it's certainly balanced and satisfactory for anything, up to and including Metallica and Green Day.
My 2 cents is that speakers ought to sound OK at reasonably volume on just about any "type" of music - if they don't, you have a failing in the frequency response somewhere, and my biggest improvements came from putting my BiBs in the corner and adding the suprabaffle wings.
I learned some things
I quoted myself back here because I learned some things which I had overlooked before.
Was able to download and use the BIB Calculator .xls file in my
Open Office Calc.
I got out my spec sheet from the FE127e and started to plug in some values:
Fs 70Hz
Qts .43
Vas 9.9
Wait. The 9.9 did not look like the examples made for the
FE103 and FE165K. But that is what is on my data sheet: 9.9L.
I need some schooling on this. I got a bad value for A-B-C.
Thanks to Jeff and GM and all for making the calculator. I have not had experience with it before today.
loninappleton said:
I quoted myself back here because I learned some things which I had overlooked before.
Was able to download and use the BIB Calculator .xls file in my
Open Office Calc.
I got out my spec sheet from the FE127e and started to plug in some values:
Fs 70Hz
Qts .43
Vas 9.9
Wait. The 9.9 did not look like the examples made for the
FE103 and FE165K. But that is what is on my data sheet: 9.9L.
I need some schooling on this. I got a bad value for A-B-C.
Thanks to Jeff and GM and all for making the calculator. I have not had experience with it before today.
