Just a hypothetical....maybe
Quick question for any of the BIB experts. If a person had two Lab-12's and was getting cold feet on the woodworking required for the PSW LabSub, could a BIB be anything CLOSE to a reasonable sized unit???? BTW very slowly adding finish to the TangBand BIBs. (I like them for listening too much to make time to add the finish, LOL) P.S. I added a piezo tweeter to mine and I really like the added zing up top.
Quick question for any of the BIB experts. If a person had two Lab-12's and was getting cold feet on the woodworking required for the PSW LabSub, could a BIB be anything CLOSE to a reasonable sized unit???? BTW very slowly adding finish to the TangBand BIBs. (I like them for listening too much to make time to add the finish, LOL) P.S. I added a piezo tweeter to mine and I really like the added zing up top.
Re: Just a hypothetical....maybe
Greets!
Sorry, I can't decide what you're asking. If you mean how big does a BIB have to be to ~match a LAB sub's output or its distortion level, it won't no matter how big you make it. If you mean how well will it work if turned into a BIB except loaded with its compression chamber, it will be more rolled off on the bottom end and have more HF BW to filter out, so for a given hF10/whatever, it will need a steeper XO point. If you mean what size would a LAB12 BIB be, then assuming a ~80 Hz XO point:
L = 180"
Sm = 220"^2 (recommend 12.4375" W x 17.687" D)
zdriver = 39.06"
Once EQ'd ~flat in-room, a pair of corners loaded with these will probably make you wonder why you even considered all that fancy woodworking for a HIFI/HT app. Note too that since this is a sub, there's no need to stand it up vertically, so they can be laid down along the front wall firing into the corner(s)/diagonally opposite corners/whatever.
FWIW, the various pipe 'subs' I did for folks were often used as speaker/TV platforms or placed behind the listening position to do shelf duty or be hidden if the distance was about right to time align at the XO point. For HT it can be a stage or seat riser and I've read some folks use them as bed platforms for bedroom systems. And of course you can put both drivers in one BIB by increasing the width/depth dims to 17.625" W x 24.9375" D, or fold it into thirds to make it more LABhorn shaped.
Since these are fairly efficient and can handle all its rated power down to at least 20 Hz, these will need to be very rigid/damped, so 19 mm Baltic Birch or Apple ply laminated with a 13 mm MDF 'skin' and some ~1" hardwood dowel 'X' braces at the mouth is required. If it's to be carpeted or hidden away out of sight, you can skin it with cheaper particle, chip, or flake board or one of the sound absorbing insulation boards, which all have increasingly superior damping qualities, but more labor intensive/costly to fine finish if in full view.
Anyway, lots of shape/positioning/finishing options with BIB subs.
GM
Greets!
Sorry, I can't decide what you're asking. If you mean how big does a BIB have to be to ~match a LAB sub's output or its distortion level, it won't no matter how big you make it. If you mean how well will it work if turned into a BIB except loaded with its compression chamber, it will be more rolled off on the bottom end and have more HF BW to filter out, so for a given hF10/whatever, it will need a steeper XO point. If you mean what size would a LAB12 BIB be, then assuming a ~80 Hz XO point:
L = 180"
Sm = 220"^2 (recommend 12.4375" W x 17.687" D)
zdriver = 39.06"
Once EQ'd ~flat in-room, a pair of corners loaded with these will probably make you wonder why you even considered all that fancy woodworking for a HIFI/HT app. Note too that since this is a sub, there's no need to stand it up vertically, so they can be laid down along the front wall firing into the corner(s)/diagonally opposite corners/whatever.
FWIW, the various pipe 'subs' I did for folks were often used as speaker/TV platforms or placed behind the listening position to do shelf duty or be hidden if the distance was about right to time align at the XO point. For HT it can be a stage or seat riser and I've read some folks use them as bed platforms for bedroom systems. And of course you can put both drivers in one BIB by increasing the width/depth dims to 17.625" W x 24.9375" D, or fold it into thirds to make it more LABhorn shaped.
Since these are fairly efficient and can handle all its rated power down to at least 20 Hz, these will need to be very rigid/damped, so 19 mm Baltic Birch or Apple ply laminated with a 13 mm MDF 'skin' and some ~1" hardwood dowel 'X' braces at the mouth is required. If it's to be carpeted or hidden away out of sight, you can skin it with cheaper particle, chip, or flake board or one of the sound absorbing insulation boards, which all have increasingly superior damping qualities, but more labor intensive/costly to fine finish if in full view.
Anyway, lots of shape/positioning/finishing options with BIB subs.
GM
Attachments
#1404
Greets!
It's basically a 'bulletproofed' version of Adire (Avatar) Audio's early version Shiva sub driver so it can withstand the heat/pressure of a relatively high CR horn at sustained high average power: http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
GM
Scottmoose said:
Greets!
It's basically a 'bulletproofed' version of Adire (Avatar) Audio's early version Shiva sub driver so it can withstand the heat/pressure of a relatively high CR horn at sustained high average power: http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
GM
I don't think Monacor have US distribution, but there's plenty of international sellers. Spectrum Audio & Wilmslow Audio for example. Monacor's own site should have some links too www.monacor.com
They should drop straight into Terry Cain's original enclosure without any problems. I've done a version specifically tailored for them though which is on the 'Zilla site: www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp -go to the Monacor button.
They should drop straight into Terry Cain's original enclosure without any problems. I've done a version specifically tailored for them though which is on the 'Zilla site: www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp -go to the Monacor button.
Lab-Bib
GM - Thanks that was exactly what I was hoping for. BTW when you said "turned into a bib except loaded with it's compression chamber" did you mean just put it in like a regular bib?? Or some sort of compression chamber built for the back/front of the speaker and vented into the bib? If the former can do, if the latter would I use a sealed chamber of some specific volume and mount THAT to a cut out in the Z=39.09" spot?
As an aside, should I post this in subwoofers as it's certainly not a fullrange project?
Thanks again for all your assistance.
GM - Thanks that was exactly what I was hoping for. BTW when you said "turned into a bib except loaded with it's compression chamber" did you mean just put it in like a regular bib?? Or some sort of compression chamber built for the back/front of the speaker and vented into the bib? If the former can do, if the latter would I use a sealed chamber of some specific volume and mount THAT to a cut out in the Z=39.09" spot?
As an aside, should I post this in subwoofers as it's certainly not a fullrange project?
Thanks again for all your assistance.
Ok!
Got some cool ideas from around here! Here's the plan, I'm gonna make a BIB bass horn that forms the underside of my day bed/couch. I've got 200cm x 80cmx 30cm to play with and I intend to use the Monacor sph-165cp boxed according to zilla site recomendations.
It'll be laying horizontally firing into a corner about 1.5metres away. I intend to cross it over at about 80-90hz with Fe108ez metronomes. It'll be powered by a T-amp or something D class.
I understand that bass becomes non directional at about 70hz so it shouldn't matter that I'll be sitting on it right?!('
')
Am I good to go???!!!!('
')
Stroop
Got some cool ideas from around here! Here's the plan, I'm gonna make a BIB bass horn that forms the underside of my day bed/couch. I've got 200cm x 80cmx 30cm to play with and I intend to use the Monacor sph-165cp boxed according to zilla site recomendations.
It'll be laying horizontally firing into a corner about 1.5metres away. I intend to cross it over at about 80-90hz with Fe108ez metronomes. It'll be powered by a T-amp or something D class.
I understand that bass becomes non directional at about 70hz so it shouldn't matter that I'll be sitting on it right?!('
')Am I good to go???!!!!('
')Stroop
Re: Lab-Bib
Greets!
I was referring to adding a simple one fold conical horn to a LABhorn style dual driver compression unit in lieu of its folded ~hyperbolic one. In essence, either the 'pointy' end of the 'BIB' would house the drivers/initial throat expansion or this composite compression driver can be inserted at some point along its length like the mids in a Unity concept horn.
Yes, this would need to be pursued either in the subwoofer forum and/or over on the HE forum: http://64.154.92.195/scripts/etv.pl?forum=hug
GM
brucedal1 said:
Greets!
I was referring to adding a simple one fold conical horn to a LABhorn style dual driver compression unit in lieu of its folded ~hyperbolic one. In essence, either the 'pointy' end of the 'BIB' would house the drivers/initial throat expansion or this composite compression driver can be inserted at some point along its length like the mids in a Unity concept horn.
Yes, this would need to be pursued either in the subwoofer forum and/or over on the HE forum: http://64.154.92.195/scripts/etv.pl?forum=hug
GM
stroop said:
Greets!
Hmm, 1.5 m is a reflected pathlength of ~115 Hz, so at a glance, this isn't a good plan unless you put something there to damp around this frequency, which will require a fairly large absorber, otherwise it will comb filter with the main's output and can't be effectively EQ'd.
Where bass becomes non-directional depends on the room dims combined with the speaker's and listener's location, so no 'one frequency fits all' solution unfortunately. Since you'll be sitting on it though, you'll be in the nearfield due to the long WLs, so the issue becomes the XO BW above its point since they are getting progressively smaller, ergo the higher the order, the better overall.
Also, when you start doing this type of offset, either the distance from the sub driver to the mains woofer needs to be a function of the XO's point, slope and/or you'll need a continually adjustable phase on the sub's amp and possibly digital time delay, otherwise it will sound 'disconnected' from the mains. For example, 90 Hz/2nd order:
~13,560"/90/(360/180) = ~75.33"
GM
Hi GM,
Thanks for the reply! hmm....I guess it'd be better to make it active, maybe use a hypex module or a thel active crossover or something. The room isn't so big, say 12feet x 18 feet - 4m x 6m. It does have 10ft 3m ceilings though. I could always turn it around use the other wall (I have 2 day beds in a corner configuration), that corner is more like 3m away.... It would be simpler/better to make it a sealed or ported box perhaps. I could always search for other horn designs other than BIB.
I basically want it to give the best quality fill in bass for the metronomes I'm going to build. I want beautiful clear double bass notes you see....
I must say that I do prefer the lower notes to come from the same place as the higher ones.
Stroop
Thanks for the reply! hmm....I guess it'd be better to make it active, maybe use a hypex module or a thel active crossover or something. The room isn't so big, say 12feet x 18 feet - 4m x 6m. It does have 10ft 3m ceilings though. I could always turn it around use the other wall (I have 2 day beds in a corner configuration), that corner is more like 3m away.... It would be simpler/better to make it a sealed or ported box perhaps. I could always search for other horn designs other than BIB.
I basically want it to give the best quality fill in bass for the metronomes I'm going to build. I want beautiful clear double bass notes you see....
I must say that I do prefer the lower notes to come from the same place as the higher ones.
Stroop