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Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
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Old 8th March 2010, 10:29 PM   #4641
GM is offline GM  United States
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Sweet! Now that's my idea of a rafter! So, what's your thoughts on the BIBs now that you've had them awhile?

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Old 9th March 2010, 05:00 PM   #4642
Martin Prothero is offline Martin Prothero  United Kingdom
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Honestly? I still love them. They keep surprising me whenever I get new music. The imaging (accuracy and depth) is superb and the sound in my room with my electronics is very well balanced, no need for more bass or top end.

On a few tracks I notice a bit of mid-range forwardness, a kind of boxy sound to voice and the imaging flattens as the volume is increased, beyond normal listening levels - but that's fine with me.

I built a flea powered SET to go with them and it is a wonderful combo.

For live recorded material, spacious ambient recordings and close mic'd vocals these are the best speakers I have ever heard at any price!

But then...doesn't stop me looking to see what else is possible.
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Old 9th March 2010, 06:30 PM   #4643
myster_maze is offline myster_maze  Greece
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Martin, nice BIBs! I also have mine for a long time and I love them. Last time I did some stuff tuning, they are also in a new room, and I was surprised about their "new" sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Prothero View Post
On a few tracks I notice a bit of mid-range forwardness, a kind of boxy sound to voice and the imaging flattens as the volume is increased, beyond normal listening levels - but that's fine with me.
I have the same experience with some recordings! Does anyone know if this can be solved? Or is it how BIBs sound?
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Old 9th March 2010, 08:30 PM   #4644
Pit Hinder is offline Pit Hinder  Germany
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You canīt solve that problem unless you build yourself a second pair of boxes. Singers nowadays are "casted" for their looks, not their voice - that extra midrange push is meant to give their minniemouse voice a bit more "authority". The same mixer settings kept when mastering a real singer - bad luck.
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Old 10th March 2010, 06:30 AM   #4645
Martin Prothero is offline Martin Prothero  United Kingdom
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Well, it is true that the speakers let you hear the real mix, warts and all but that is the reward when the original material is of a high standard.

For me this mid-range issue is only occasional - one track on an otherwise fine sounding album so I think it is the mix.

If you turn the volume up too far then eventually the drivers won't produce enough bass to keep up and the presentation gets mid-range prominent. But I listen plenty loud enough (living in a rural location) and they are fine 99% of the time.

I did swap out my original internal wiring recently and replace with silver wire 0.6mm and it has made a real difference. The top end is now full free of glare and has an amazing shimmer - symbols sound like they could go on for ever.
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Old 10th March 2010, 08:38 AM   #4646
myster_maze is offline myster_maze  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Prothero View Post
If you turn the volume up too far then eventually the drivers won't produce enough bass to keep up and the presentation gets mid-range prominent. But I listen plenty loud enough (living in a rural location) and they are fine 99% of the time.
Maybe you need some room treatment. In loud levels, room plays a significant role.

About wiring, did you try any CAT5 wire? I use CAT5 with solid core wires and the results are more than great. And, you have the opportunity to experiment with 4 parallel pairs.
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Old 10th March 2010, 08:54 AM   #4647
Martin Prothero is offline Martin Prothero  United Kingdom
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Yeah, I discovered cat5 too. I made my speaker cable from 6 twisted pairs, plaited into + and - and covered in cotton rope. Looks great and no compromise with sound. Have you tried cat5 cable just as 2 runs of single solid core cable almost like an interconnect? I was wondering if that would be too small dia but am interested to know what it will do to the sound.

If you find the top end is OK but not that special, do try some silver plated copper or better still pure silver. For a small amount its very little money for big returns. Suits my set-up really well. I know some folks don't agree but there is no going back for me.
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Old 10th March 2010, 09:02 AM   #4648
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Prothero View Post
Yeah, I discovered cat5 too. I made my speaker cable from 6 twisted pairs, plaited into + and - and covered in cotton rope. Looks great and no compromise with sound. Have you tried cat5 cable just as 2 runs of single solid core cable almost like an interconnect? I was wondering if that would be too small dia but am interested to know what it will do to the sound.
Try it... you mightfind you like it... with the FE168eS you certainly won't have issues with current carrying capability.

We started with lotsa strands and have worked our way down to single pairs...

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Old 11th March 2010, 08:47 PM   #4649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Prothero View Post
Honestly? I still love them.

On a few tracks I notice a bit of mid-range forwardness, a kind of boxy sound to voice and the imaging flattens as the volume is increased, beyond normal listening levels - but that's fine with me.

I built a flea powered SET to go with them and it is a wonderful combo.

But then...doesn't stop me looking to see what else is possible.
Cool!

Hmm, this implies it's in the recording mix and/or amp clipping and/or driver distortion, not a box loading and/or room problem. Factor in the flea power and voltage dropping ~23 ga. wire and we have a winner!

Understood. I lucked up decades ago finding a combination that only cubic $$$ systems well beyond my means could best, but time moves on and in recent years I auditioned a semi-affordable system that's enough of a step up overall that I've got the 'hots' to DIY a 21st century system before I'm too old to do it.

~23 ga...... I'm curious what their lengths are and the amp's output impedance (not tap rating) or at least published damping factor if available.

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Old 11th March 2010, 08:59 PM   #4650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myster_maze View Post
Maybe you need some room treatment. In loud levels, room plays a significant role.
True, but in the vocal range a 'FR' driver is already beaming, so room interaction is rarely an issue. It's just a sad fact of life that some folks mix the vocals to be way in front of the band to the point of audibly distorting if turned up a bit (Nora Jones, LeAnn Rimes are sizzling examples). Factor in that most 'FR' drivers today have a bit of a peak through our acute hearing BW that exacerbates the problem; and if it has some corresponding peaking up around 7 kHz where sibilance resides you have a driver only suitable for skeet practice or ceiling PA apps IMNSHO if the necessary EQ isn't used.

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