Just to add what Scott says,
Try different thicknesses, I like cat5 solid core the best. Litz is slightly different again. 18AWG gives a different sound too slightly thicker in the mids in my case. These ARE noticable differences and change the character, which is really great in that it allows you to indulge in your taste. And all for a maximum of $10!!!!! You can't lose just allow for experimentation in the beginning.
Cheers Stroop
Try different thicknesses, I like cat5 solid core the best. Litz is slightly different again. 18AWG gives a different sound too slightly thicker in the mids in my case. These ARE noticable differences and change the character, which is really great in that it allows you to indulge in your taste. And all for a maximum of $10!!!!! You can't lose just allow for experimentation in the beginning.
Cheers Stroop
Hi...
I'm still thinking about a FE207E-BIB.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-fostex.asp tells me, that the linelength should be 174"
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1520 built them with a linelength of app. 142"
Can I change the linelength to whatever length fits to my room?
I'm still thinking about a FE207E-BIB.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-fostex.asp tells me, that the linelength should be 174"
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1520 built them with a linelength of app. 142"
Can I change the linelength to whatever length fits to my room?
This is really rough (I'm at work, what can I say ;p), but I was wanting to see what you guys thought of this design.
This is for a Pioneer B20. This would be 48" tall by 12" wide and I'm assuming an internal depth of 7" (though I'm sure I could move up to 8" with just a shorter mouth opening without issue). Basically just folding the recommended BiB up into a space I can place using as much standard precut lumber as I could. Line length and zdriver match the recommended design almost exactly.
So, think this will still work? Is this like having a compression chamber on a horn? Might the chamber, which by itself would model a pretty good hump right above 100Hz, help negate the first big dip on the BiB response?
Kensai
This is for a Pioneer B20. This would be 48" tall by 12" wide and I'm assuming an internal depth of 7" (though I'm sure I could move up to 8" with just a shorter mouth opening without issue). Basically just folding the recommended BiB up into a space I can place using as much standard precut lumber as I could. Line length and zdriver match the recommended design almost exactly.
So, think this will still work? Is this like having a compression chamber on a horn? Might the chamber, which by itself would model a pretty good hump right above 100Hz, help negate the first big dip on the BiB response?
Kensai
Attachments
Kensai said:
Greets!
Could.......
No, it's a low pass filter chamber, same as the front chamber of a FLH. The room is a BLH's 'compression chamber'.
Could, but if the pipe doesn't damp it well enough it will audibly ring all the way up, ergo it will probably need to be a lot bigger than your sketch implies, but only one way to find out AFAIK. Not many 'free lunches' in audio design.
GM
I say!
Thanks for correcting my thinking on that GM. It figures that I was trying to be overly clever ;-p
Anyway, wasn't it you that had told someone awhile back that a BiB for an FF85 might not be worthwhile as it would be a long, slow expanding affair? I was wondering just how long and slow we're talking about here (BiB parameters, please). I'm sure they wouldn't get much lower than 90-100Hz, but that would make them alot easier to integrate with a sub while having a very slender profile.
Kensai
Anyway, wasn't it you that had told someone awhile back that a BiB for an FF85 might not be worthwhile as it would be a long, slow expanding affair? I was wondering just how long and slow we're talking about here (BiB parameters, please). I'm sure they wouldn't get much lower than 90-100Hz, but that would make them alot easier to integrate with a sub while having a very slender profile.
Kensai
Greets!
You're welcome!
I was referring to a BLH and didn't bother to work it out, I just know from experience what it takes to make a small driver 'roar': http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1047331#post1047331
Actually, its ideal low cut-off (Fc) is in the low 30s depending on its measured specs, but due to starting with a small throat it will take seemingly forever for it to grow to a large enough mouth to support it even if corner loaded.
GM
You're welcome!
I was referring to a BLH and didn't bother to work it out, I just know from experience what it takes to make a small driver 'roar'
: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1047331#post1047331Actually, its ideal low cut-off (Fc) is in the low 30s depending on its measured specs, but due to starting with a small throat it will take seemingly forever for it to grow to a large enough mouth to support it even if corner loaded.
GM
GM,
Low 30s? You can't be serious. If I could get these things to sing down into the 60s I'd probably use them without a sub I know you're not interested, but I'm almost direly curious what kind of design it would take to properly backload the FF85.
Also, I am increasingly amazed at your ability to find the exact posts from earlier in this thread that are being referred to now in such short amounts of time
Kensai
Low 30s? You can't be serious. If I could get these things to sing down into the 60s I'd probably use them without a sub
I know you're not interested, but I'm almost direly curious what kind of design it would take to properly backload the FF85.Also, I am increasingly amazed at your ability to find the exact posts from earlier in this thread that are being referred to now in such short amounts of time
Kensai
Greets!
Serious as a heart attack! I had an epiphany of sorts back when I was trying to learn about horn design the long, hard way by reverse engineering compression drivers/horn systems, and while I've only tested the theory on a cheap open back tweeter to keep the size semi-manageable, I'm confident it will work on any driver with specs suitable for vented alignments, especially once I saw Olson's BLH patent: http://free.patentfetcher.com/GetPatentPDF.php?f=Pats/US/22/24/US2224919.pdf
Anyway, I'll 'run the numbers' later, but scroll down to the bottom of the web page and you'll find a 'Search this Thread:' window that makes finding info a snap. I just wish all web forums had this feature.
I've pointed this out several times on this thread, but I wonder if there's a way for this info to be 'stickied' to it and any other long ones, or at least at the head of each forum.
GM
Serious as a heart attack! I had an epiphany of sorts back when I was trying to learn about horn design the long, hard way by reverse engineering compression drivers/horn systems, and while I've only tested the theory on a cheap open back tweeter to keep the size semi-manageable, I'm confident it will work on any driver with specs suitable for vented alignments, especially once I saw Olson's BLH patent: http://free.patentfetcher.com/GetPatentPDF.php?f=Pats/US/22/24/US2224919.pdf
Anyway, I'll 'run the numbers' later, but scroll down to the bottom of the web page and you'll find a 'Search this Thread:' window that makes finding info a snap. I just wish all web forums had this feature.
I've pointed this out several times on this thread, but I wonder if there's a way for this info to be 'stickied' to it and any other long ones, or at least at the head of each forum.
GM
This the sort of thing you had in mind, 'regular' BLH-wise for the FF85K Greg? This is about the best I can do -stays within Xmax to ~60Hz, below that, I can't get it down. I sized the mouth assuming corner loading (the size here is what gave the attached response). A trifle excessive I suppose, given that gain is so far above nominal for the driver alone, but I figured best to go with what you taught me: go for gain as it can always be damped.
Exponential flare. Rear chamber volume 0.65 litres.
Length = 192in
Throat = 2.2in^2
Mouth = 1147in^2
Exponential flare. Rear chamber volume 0.65 litres.
Length = 192in
Throat = 2.2in^2
Mouth = 1147in^2
Attachments
Now THAT is an impressively oversized enclosure for a 3" driver. For anyone not keeping score, just the mouth alone is almost exactly the area of a 2'x4" sheet. Folding the 16' exponential taper line up into something that could actually be built and fielded would/will be a hell of a task, but I'm thinking the thing would be 6'-8' tall, 2' deep and at least 2.5' wide (not to mention weighing 200+lbs).
No, I'm not going to attempt that sort of build, but I might toy around with designing it.
Thanks guys.
Kensai
No, I'm not going to attempt that sort of build, but I might toy around with designing it.
Thanks guys.
Kensai
Not small is it? Makes an interesting exercise anyway. I don't pretend this is a good 'design' -I knocked it up in less than 5 minutes, but it gives the contrast between the hybrid cabinets usually seen, and something designed more from horn theory (or very nearly). I really should have refined the design a bit, but this was just a quick thought experiment.
Makes an interesting exercise anyway. I don't pretend this is a good 'design' -I knocked it up in less than 5 minutes, but it gives the contrast between the hybrid cabinets usually seen, and something designed more from horn theory (or very nearly). I really should have refined the design a bit, but this was just a quick thought experiment.
Scott,
you are the historian (or you know where you put that book) - wasn't there a horn that was in fact the roof of a dancing hall? I know I have a pic somewhere, but having moved five times within seven years...
As someone in some forum has as his signature: "A friend helps you move. A good friend helps you move a corpse."
P.S. I strongly suspect Wente/Thuras.
you are the historian (or you know where you put that book) - wasn't there a horn that was in fact the roof of a dancing hall? I know I have a pic somewhere, but having moved five times within seven years...
As someone in some forum has as his signature: "A friend helps you move. A good friend helps you move a corpse."
P.S. I strongly suspect Wente/Thuras.