First time poster here. I am planning to make a dual driver setup using the Fostex FE126/7, similar in design to the Omega Speaker Systems TS 33. However, I want to make a sealed enclosure, since I'd rather have tight and accurate bass than extend down a few Hz more.
I have several questions though.
1: Should I use the 126 or the 127?
2: Should the drivers be wired in series or parallel?
3: Where can I find useful information on how to actually design an enclosure? Everywhere I've looked, they've just given descriptions of the different types as opposed to actually telling you how to optimize one.
4: As a final question, would I end up happier in the long run with a system like this or by waiting and saving up to upgrade to the Hammer Dynamics Super 12's (my much more costly alternative)?
Any advice on these questions would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot!
I have several questions though.
1: Should I use the 126 or the 127?
2: Should the drivers be wired in series or parallel?
3: Where can I find useful information on how to actually design an enclosure? Everywhere I've looked, they've just given descriptions of the different types as opposed to actually telling you how to optimize one.
4: As a final question, would I end up happier in the long run with a system like this or by waiting and saving up to upgrade to the Hammer Dynamics Super 12's (my much more costly alternative)?
Any advice on these questions would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot!
The FE166E has a low Q (highly damped) and will be very bass shy in a sealed enclosure.
The FE167E would be better in a sealed enclosure, but is still has low Q.
Experimenting with volume might give you a reasonable bass level (smaller box raises bass level but cutoff is higher).
Why not build a double BR enclosure like the fostex recommended ones?
The FE167E would be better in a sealed enclosure, but is still has low Q.
Experimenting with volume might give you a reasonable bass level (smaller box raises bass level but cutoff is higher).
Why not build a double BR enclosure like the fostex recommended ones?
Hi
On the picture of the OMEGA's are Fe127e.
http://mivasecure.abac.com/fsaudiow...duct_Code=omega-sp-ts33&Category_Code=C-omega
I've used Fe127 and Fe127e.
Personally I like the Fe127 better because I've the feeling that the resulution (?) of higher frequency is better.
Both are playing in a combination with two 13cm drivers. I wouldn't use two drivers per side.
The enclosure for the FE127 is something arround 0.8-1.1 liters.
The enclosure for the Fe127e is something arround 3.5-4.5 liters.
I wouldn't run these small Drivers under 200Hz so you will need a Bass/Subwoofer under the Fostex.
left is the Fe127e / right the Fe127
On the picture of the OMEGA's are Fe127e.
http://mivasecure.abac.com/fsaudiow...duct_Code=omega-sp-ts33&Category_Code=C-omega
I've used Fe127 and Fe127e.
Personally I like the Fe127 better because I've the feeling that the resulution (?) of higher frequency is better.
Both are playing in a combination with two 13cm drivers. I wouldn't use two drivers per side.
The enclosure for the FE127 is something arround 0.8-1.1 liters.
The enclosure for the Fe127e is something arround 3.5-4.5 liters.
I wouldn't run these small Drivers under 200Hz so you will need a Bass/Subwoofer under the Fostex.
left is the Fe127e / right the Fe127
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Welcome A1. You should have a look at this thread ....that should answer questions 1,2 and 3. I built a few of those designs and the Bi-pole TL is by far the best design.
Getting useful bass out of these drivers is the point of using something other than a sealed enclosure.
To answer question 4 is more difficult, but even you won't know the answer unless you build both. Prolly depends on how interested you are in building in the first place, and why. Feel free to elaborate on your urges.....you're among addicts here.
On a related note: I have a pair of 127E's left over from those projects and Roemhild's post gets me thinking about using them in a 2-way or similar. Anyone have more thoughts on that?
Getting useful bass out of these drivers is the point of using something other than a sealed enclosure.
To answer question 4 is more difficult, but even you won't know the answer unless you build both. Prolly depends on how interested you are in building in the first place, and why. Feel free to elaborate on your urges.....you're among addicts here.
On a related note: I have a pair of 127E's left over from those projects and Roemhild's post gets me thinking about using them in a 2-way or similar. Anyone have more thoughts on that?
I made a set of folded MLTL from the noted thread. (post 446 of noted thread) They sound great and look pretty good too. This is a great driver. For my ears it does not need a tweeter, it could use a sub to help augment the lower octaves but it really shines in the mid range. I highly recommend the designs noted in the thread referenced by x. onasis
It is a long thread but worth the read if you are interested in FE127 designs.
Good luck
I hope this helps
It is a long thread but worth the read if you are interested in FE127 designs.
Good luck
I hope this helps
One thing to consider that has not been mentioned yet is that bass reflex helps to control cone motion at the tuning frequency. These are fairly small drivers that if run open will run out of excursion at higher volumes, the port loading can do some good in this respect. Of course the driver will unload at frequencies below the port tuning. It's all give and take but I would certainly take an MLTL design over a sealed for this driver if you want to run it open. Of course you could have a subwoofer then it would be a whole different deal.... my prefred option would be to seal them and role them off around 300Hz to a large Pro Sound woofer.
just my
Joe
just my
Joe
Hi landpirate,
the driver in the middle are the Fostex Fe127(e). The other ones are from Monacor
--> http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_suche.php?artid=2078&spr=DE&typ=full
They are playing in a bass reflex. The only difference between these two speakers is that the round version has the Fe127e and of course the design shape. If you are interessted I can post the plan for the straight version and the x-over.
bst regards Till
the driver in the middle are the Fostex Fe127(e). The other ones are from Monacor
--> http://www.monacor.de/de/produktseite_suche.php?artid=2078&spr=DE&typ=full
They are playing in a bass reflex. The only difference between these two speakers is that the round version has the Fe127e and of course the design shape. If you are interessted I can post the plan for the straight version and the x-over.
bst regards Till
Hi Till,
I would be very interested in your plans and crossover for the Fostex d'Appolito because I am thinking of a Fe127e with bass support. My ones are running in a bass reflex enclosure at the moment and I am not very content with the bass though it is really amazing regarding the little speakers in those little cabinets.
Did you think of building a horn "your kind" for the fe172e?
regards
Flo
I would be very interested in your plans and crossover for the Fostex d'Appolito because I am thinking of a Fe127e with bass support. My ones are running in a bass reflex enclosure at the moment and I am not very content with the bass though it is really amazing regarding the little speakers in those little cabinets.
Did you think of building a horn "your kind" for the fe172e?
regards
Flo
Hi Flo,
first to the question about the horn: No I have never thought about a horn for the Fe127/127e because I wouldn't get deeper than the fs.
That's the reason why Raffi and I have build the horn for the Vifa.
http://www.hornlautsprecher.de/vifahorn.htm
I will try to finish the plans tomorrow for the preso.
The x-over of the preso is very easy and can give you a good start for your own x-over design. A few years agow I have tried symetric x-overes with a very good result. Just try it out:
cap: 2x 68µF
coil: 2x 1.8 mH
I had to reduce the Fe127e about 2dB so I took resistors with a value of:
2x 1 OHM
1x 33 OHM
I had to change the values of the caps a bit so take this x-over just for a starting point.
first to the question about the horn: No I have never thought about a horn for the Fe127/127e because I wouldn't get deeper than the fs.
That's the reason why Raffi and I have build the horn for the Vifa.
http://www.hornlautsprecher.de/vifahorn.htm
I will try to finish the plans tomorrow for the preso.
The x-over of the preso is very easy and can give you a good start for your own x-over design. A few years agow I have tried symetric x-overes with a very good result. Just try it out:
cap: 2x 68µF
coil: 2x 1.8 mH
I had to reduce the Fe127e about 2dB so I took resistors with a value of:
2x 1 OHM
1x 33 OHM
I had to change the values of the caps a bit so take this x-over just for a starting point.
Attachments
Hi Till,
thank you for your reply. As far as I understood you, you recommend the fe127e in 3,5-4,5l closed. Did you find this volume with your listening-method? Did you think of using the -12dB/octave of the enclosure as a high-pass filter and adding a woofer which goes up to approx 100Hz.
I'm asking because I like the sound of the fe127e with no passive components in the signal path - I even removed the baffle-step after break in. In this "active mode" I think this one is a really good speaker. It's not tonally perfect because of the rising frequency response and a little resonnance somewhere between 6 and 7 kHz which results in sharp "s"es when the singer is close to the microphone. But it offers an imaging and an impulse response which you have to search among even very expensive speakers.
regards
Flo
thank you for your reply. As far as I understood you, you recommend the fe127e in 3,5-4,5l closed. Did you find this volume with your listening-method? Did you think of using the -12dB/octave of the enclosure as a high-pass filter and adding a woofer which goes up to approx 100Hz.
I'm asking because I like the sound of the fe127e with no passive components in the signal path - I even removed the baffle-step after break in. In this "active mode" I think this one is a really good speaker. It's not tonally perfect because of the rising frequency response and a little resonnance somewhere between 6 and 7 kHz which results in sharp "s"es when the singer is close to the microphone. But it offers an imaging and an impulse response which you have to search among even very expensive speakers.
regards
Flo
Hi a1rocket,
no, I don't think that the designs you mentioned are too difficult to build - unless you want the round top to be really round.
I did not listen to one of those bipoles but as I expect from my experience with dipoles, they could be quite difficult to place in the room.
If you go for the Fostex, don't expect a real bass extension. It is possible to get anything around 50 Hz out of them but normally the impulse response in that region would be "not optimal". There are speakers which are better suited for jobs like this, the Jordan e.g. But if you compare the Fostex to the Jordan (what is not fair because the Jordans are definitely another league), the Fostex give a very much "faster" impulse response with all the consequences concerning soundstage etc. My favourite would be a Fostex with bass extensoin by another speaker at the moment.
And think of the very long break in of those paper cones. I could not believe that the sound of a speaker could change after 200 hrs of listening. But now I know that they do.
regards
Flo
no, I don't think that the designs you mentioned are too difficult to build - unless you want the round top to be really round.
I did not listen to one of those bipoles but as I expect from my experience with dipoles, they could be quite difficult to place in the room.
If you go for the Fostex, don't expect a real bass extension. It is possible to get anything around 50 Hz out of them but normally the impulse response in that region would be "not optimal". There are speakers which are better suited for jobs like this, the Jordan e.g. But if you compare the Fostex to the Jordan (what is not fair because the Jordans are definitely another league), the Fostex give a very much "faster" impulse response with all the consequences concerning soundstage etc. My favourite would be a Fostex with bass extensoin by another speaker at the moment.
And think of the very long break in of those paper cones. I could not believe that the sound of a speaker could change after 200 hrs of listening. But now I know that they do.
regards
Flo
TL design
By all means go with the one of the TL designs. I highly recommend the bipole particularly if you have a bit of room out to the side of your listening area. IE a room that is wider than long. My room is 24x14 I have my speakers set up across the width with the listening chair about ten feet from the drivers. The sound stage is huge and "stuff" seems to come from way outside the actual space of the speakers. It is very great. Bipole means no baffle step loss and very nice smooth sound. You have to hear it to believe it. No electronic hardware in the speaker keeps thing very simple. The drivers can be wired in series or parralel depnding on the amp. I like mine in series it seems to make my amp happy.
These designs are well thought out, tested and proven. Once you decide start a new thread to get some comments.
Good for you, enjoy the ride it is a lot of fun!
By all means go with the one of the TL designs. I highly recommend the bipole particularly if you have a bit of room out to the side of your listening area. IE a room that is wider than long. My room is 24x14 I have my speakers set up across the width with the listening chair about ten feet from the drivers. The sound stage is huge and "stuff" seems to come from way outside the actual space of the speakers. It is very great. Bipole means no baffle step loss and very nice smooth sound. You have to hear it to believe it. No electronic hardware in the speaker keeps thing very simple. The drivers can be wired in series or parralel depnding on the amp. I like mine in series it seems to make my amp happy.
These designs are well thought out, tested and proven. Once you decide start a new thread to get some comments.
Good for you, enjoy the ride it is a lot of fun!
bipoles , dipoles
Bipoles are not dipoles. Please do not get them confused. I have built and listened to the designs on the other thread. They are good designs, they perform reasonably well to the modeled characteristics. Read the projections for responses. They are not designed to rock the house, they are not designed to shake the windows, they are designed to give a nice smooth playback with great response in the mid range, reasonable extension in both treble and bass. If you want a three way, build a three way.
As always you need to decide what you want before you build so you do not get disapointed.
Good luck
Bipoles are not dipoles. Please do not get them confused. I have built and listened to the designs on the other thread. They are good designs, they perform reasonably well to the modeled characteristics. Read the projections for responses. They are not designed to rock the house, they are not designed to shake the windows, they are designed to give a nice smooth playback with great response in the mid range, reasonable extension in both treble and bass. If you want a three way, build a three way.
As always you need to decide what you want before you build so you do not get disapointed.
Good luck
Hi Floric,
if you need more informations you can allways send me an email. ( till /at\ hornlautsprecher.de ). Maybe some thinks are better to explain in german.
I've got the depth between the fullrange and the woofers experimential but it is pretty exactly the same as shown on the picture below.
regards Till
if you need more informations you can allways send me an email. ( till /at\ hornlautsprecher.de ). Maybe some thinks are better to explain in german.
I've got the depth between the fullrange and the woofers experimential but it is pretty exactly the same as shown on the picture below.
regards Till
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