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Old 8th December 2005, 01:35 AM   #11
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If your making prototypes try the bipole configuration to see if you like it.

By the way I like the fe126 horn bass reflex enclosure, that is the first one I've seen built. I read your website and it looks like you like them.

and I believe blip1882 meant especially no need for cross over components IF you go with the bipole configuration.

Good Luck,

Josh
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Old 10th December 2005, 01:00 AM   #12
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Default Skinny solution

So I’m idly sat waiting for my Tb W4-1052sa’s to arrive and I’m thinking why not build a floor standing version to avoid messing around with speaker stands.

This will allow me to go for the skinny look? Narrow front and depth – with most of the volume in the height. If I go with Blip1882’s 27.3 litre volume I could build a floor stander.

The top compartment for the speakers would be 7.5” wide x 12” deep x 29” high externally (3/4” MDF) giving me a total volume of 27.62 lts before deductions. If I went this direction (just a thought at the moment) where would the speakers sit in relation to “sat-ear-level” I would think they’d sit central above and below ear level???

Total height of speaker would be subject to above.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 10th December 2005, 08:38 PM   #13
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greenie512,

I like your Idea of a floorstander, or you could do something similar to the recomended FE167e enclosure which uses the stand as a vent, a very cool design.

If you are going to go skinny then you want to bipole, I can't stress this more. If you you put both on the front baffle, not only can you introduce lobbing, but the baffle step diffraction will leave you bassless. By designing a bipole enclosure not only can you rule out any chance of baffle step occuring, but you won't have any risk of lobbing.

I build a pair of speakers for my philosophy class last year using Hi-Vi B3S. They were very skinny with a longer odd shaped side, but because of the small baffle there is no midbass. I recently turned them into bipoles and they sound MUCH better. Although the enclosure is too small for the two of them they are much fuller sounding due to no baffle step diffraction.

Good Luck,

Josh
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Old 11th December 2005, 12:41 AM   #14
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Thanks Josh, okay, time to suss-up …. I have no real design knowledge for speakers and up until now have been sticking to tried and test designs. Which is why I’m throwing my ideas out for valid and helpful comments!

Is there a “simple” tool I can use to calculate the best baffle width to avoid the problems you are talking about. The reason I’m not considering bipole layout is I usually place my speakers quite close to the wall and my house is VERY light weight construction for reflective purposes. Luckily I have no neighbours close by!

Yep, have thought about building a FE167e cabinet, it looks a very nice design but think I’d uses the 167e in it first to make sure I was happy with the basic results - then I’d make variations.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 11th December 2005, 08:48 PM   #15
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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Greenie, a couple questions and ideas, FWIW.

To clarify, you are buying four drivers (two each side)? AFAIK putting two forward facing a la Omega Minuet is not a problem, because near-field combing effects will only occur very close to the speaker. Just make sure to mount them as close together as possible. As a test, slap them in a simple open baffle and listen to them singly and in pairs, that of course will give you the best idea of how treble sounds, and do this BEFORE building enclosures.

I think you'll want to wire them in series, which means something has to be done with McKenzie's correction circuit, but I'm not sure what. AFAIK it would just be a simple mathematical formula to determine the correct RLC values.

If you are placing your speakers right against the wall, no need to worry about baffle step loss, as the wall becomes a proxy "infinite" baffle. I like wider baffles, if it were me I'd make the cross-section a golden-ratio rectangle, with the wide side facing forward. This also puts your speaker that much closer to the wall. And if you ever want to pull them out into the room, the wider baffle lowers the baffle step frequency, which is a good thing.

If you are going to build floorstanders, by all means make them vented transmission line. The cabinet is just as easy to build as bass reflex. Designing it is a bit trickier, but by no means awful if you use Martin King's worksheet. (You need a Windoze machine, though, to run Mathcad Explorer, which he has for free download on his site.)

Bob Brines has a nifty little article showing how to design one of these towers, starting from rough rule-of-thumb dimensions and then fine-tuning with Martin's software:
http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pa.../Small_TL.html
Just remember that if you have two drivers, you need to double Sd. Martin has a short article about how to model multiple drivers.

P.S. The design you'll want to use from Bob's table is the Straight 40Hz row.
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Old 11th December 2005, 09:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dumbass
I think you'll want to wire them in series, which means something has to be done with McKenzie's correction circuit, but I'm not sure what. AFAIK it would just be a simple mathematical formula to determine the correct RLC values.
Dumbass - thanks for info, I'll mull that lot over and post final design
once drivers arrive "Down-under" - oh - yeh, your assumptions where correct.

I was going to wire two drivers in series for each cab to give me a 8 ohm load but I don't know what you are refering to in the quote above - apologise for being a dumb a**.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 11th December 2005, 10:13 PM   #17
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenie512
I was going to wire two drivers in series for each cab to give me a 8 ohm load but I don't know what you are refering to in the quote above - apologise for being a dumb a**.
McKenzie's eq filter is an RLC (resistor/inductor/capacitor) circuit based on the load presented by a single driver. I'm pretty certain the values would need to change for two speakers in series, probably according to some simple formula but I don't know enough to say. You might want to e-mail McKenzie personally.

BTW I reviewed this thread. Re: flush vs surface mounting, for a full-ranger not that important, because high-freqs are beaming anyways (due to destructive interference in sideways directions at higher freqs due to width of cone). The Zaph article was specifically about mounting tweeters, where it is an important issue. The best way (IMO) to deal with beaminess in full-rangers is to significantly toe them in, so their axes cross in front of the listening position; this is what Ted Jordan recommends. This does a couple things. First, the sweetspot listener is listening to each driver slightly off-axis, which tends to be where a full-ranger sounds best. Second, if you are to the left or right of the sweet spot, the toeing compensates for the proximity effect, because the farther speaker is more on-axis. This is how I have my FE207E set up, and it works really well. Best thing is, it's 100% reversible.

Also, want to clarify about "wide" and "narrow" remark from my previous post. If you go the vented straight TL route, it will be a tall and narrow design and the exact shape of the cross-section isn't terribly important, even square would be fine. For some examples check out:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Gallery/Gallery.html

This just occured to me, having two drivers might make designing the TL somewhat easier, as the two drivers would tend to cancel out any harmonics associated with driver placement.

Anyways, I recommend flipping through Bob's and Martin's sites if you're interested in this route.
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Old 22nd December 2005, 06:29 AM   #18
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Default Speakers arrive

After sitting in Sydney for 5 days my four little babies just arrived.

And of course I coulded resist drafting my proposed floor standers ... all comments welcome.

Cheers - Phil
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Old 25th December 2005, 07:34 AM   #19
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Default The temptation of ...

Christmas – bahhhhhhhhhhhh, should be in the shed making speakers.

I just knew 4 new drivers turning up just before Xmas was just too tempting. I couldn’t annoy the neighbours on Christmas day by sawing/routing a complete set of boxes. So I tried the W4-1052SA’s in the FE 126e BR box but the opening just caught the fixings so I cut a temporary baffle from a bit of 6mm MDF.

In the cobbled up box they sound pretty dam good, wouldn’t expect lower end to be too good “as is” but definitely signs that in the right box this’ll work – especially two aside!

The higher register seems better than the Fostex FE 126e but doesn’t have the “mellow/soft” sound either but it’s definitely not a hard sound. I think the metal phase plug will have something to do with that.

From very initial listening these TB driver sound little gems – will start the actual cabinets later in the week.

Cheers – Phil

PS – MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL
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Old 25th December 2005, 08:21 PM   #20
Jeb-D. is offline Jeb-D.  United States
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Keep us posted, I just got 4 of these drivers as well and am unsure exactly what to do with them.
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