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-   -   "Cyburgs-Stick" featuring W4-655SA (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/65375-cyburgs-stick-featuring-w4-655sa.html)

Cyburgs 4th October 2005 12:09 AM

"Cyburgs-Stick" featuring W4-655SA
 
Now finally the plan in English is ready. The Stick is a double bass reflex enclosure for a single Tangband W4-655SA. The response curve is flattened with two notch filters. In room conditions it goes well down to about 50 Hz, this means Subwoofer is not a must.
In comparison to the Needles they have a better efficiency and are able to cope with higher volume levels because of about double Sd. I mean, they are still quite small chassis and you are not in danger to blow yourself out of the door (for this exercise I have constructed the "Viech" ;) ). But in small or medium listening rooms you get really nice volume levels for such a small speaker.
I tried to get the sound as near as possible to the Needle, which I like extremely well, and I think it worked out quite well. There are small differences, the Sticks play a little bit more dynamic and analytical, the Needles a little warmer. But the difference is extremely small, I don't know if I would really pass a blind test.
Here is a picture of my pair:

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6313/stick0wt.jpg

Here is the plan:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1...tickeng2fh.jpg

Here is the frequency response without the notch filters. You can see a rather flat hill in the mids and a resonance peak at about 7000 Hz.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9735/neustick1jl.jpg

Here is the frequency response with both notch filters. The one consisting of only C and L filters out the peak, the other one flattens the mids. The raise in the heights is not flattened out, because it softens off-axis. So I recommend to place the speakers in parallel and not turned in.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9...1s2hoch1vh.jpg

Nice greetings, Berndt

edjosh23 4th October 2005 01:56 AM

Looks great!

How do you think these "sticks" would hold with the W4-1320SB. FS 75hz qts .37 vas 5.99 and the W4-655SA has fs: 70hz qts .33 and vas 5.09.


Thanks,

Josh

Cyburgs 5th October 2005 12:16 AM

@edjosh23:
Difficult to say. The parameters of Tangband drivers often differ quite much from the official catalogue parameters.
The parameters for the W4-655SA measured by the german Hifi-DIY-magazine Klang&Ton for example are as follows:
Qt: 0,43
fs: 77,89
VAS: 4,3
As I don't have any measured parameters from your drivers, I can not judge, how this will affect the performance in the Sticks.
The only way to test it is to build them. If you build prototypes from cheap chipboard it is no problem, if the experiment failes. As far as I understood you own the drivers already. Just give them a try.
The probability that it works is quite good, I think.

Nice greetings, Berndt

edjosh23 5th October 2005 01:34 AM

Unfortunately I don't have the W4-1320SB, but I'm very interested in them. I've heard great things about them. Unfortunately the W4-655SA is not sold at parts express and would have to be special ordered, while the W4-1320SB is sold at Parts Express. For me its just much easier to order from Parts Express.

Well as soon as my mom will let me build more speakers I'm gonna try some needles for my pair of w3-871s laying around and I'd love to try something using a larger driver.

While most of you have the wife to worry about, us teenagers are resticted by our mothers. She says she can bairly walk into my room because I have too many speakers.

Thanks,

Josh

Svein_B 30th September 2006 03:48 PM

Here is a German build of a slightly modified Stick, the Bambus- Stick with W4-1320SB that I found.

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-104-6952.html (with pictures and measurements!)


I have been looking for some alternatives to recreate the magic sound provided by the Cyburgs Needle but at a slightly larger scale (sound vise). The Stick seems to be one of the few well documented projects around for TB 4" drivers that I have found.

Any one else have experiences to share?

Svein_B.

MuaDibb 2nd October 2006 01:39 PM

If you have the 871S already, I would suggest a downward firing BIB. If, you can put them in corners. I recently built a pair and they sound really good, amazing bass for a 3" driver. All the info is in the BIB thread if you're interested.

mod_sonic 3rd October 2006 12:59 PM

Recessed & Rounded over
 
Hi Cyburgs

I'm in the middle of building some of your Needles, so I was interested to compare them with your Sticks, and I came up with a whole load of questions :

The Sticks (and the top and bottom of the Needles) are specified as 16mm thick. That's not commonly available in UK. Would 18mm do, provided the internal volume was kept the same ?

What was the benefit of rounding over the baffles edges, and were you able to measure it ?

Would the speaker benefit from recessing the drivers ?

Would the Needles benefit from rounded over baffle edges and recessed drivers ?

Thanks

Mark

Cyburgs 4th October 2006 12:14 AM

Hi mod_sonic:

Regarding your questions:

- You can use 18mm boards without problems, as you already said, if you keep the internal dimensions the same. Take care, that also the lenght and the cross-sectional area of the ports are kept the same.
- The 16mm of the top and the foot of the needle have only optical reasons. You can replace them with 12mm or 18mm without problems.
- Rounding the baffle is always a good idea, because it makes the frequency plot under different angles more linear. Fullrange-speakers tend to beam the sound, so this issue is not so critical than with multi-way speakers. If you have the possibility to round the edges, do it, if not, leave it. Although rounded edges are better for sure, I doubt that the difference can be heard.

- Same for recessed drivers. Due to the beaming it is not so critical, but do it if you can.

- There is one tweak I recommend strongly for Needle and Stick: Bevel the inner side of the driver cut-out as described in the Stick plan. The W3-871S as well as the W4-655SA have huge magnet caps, which otherwise hamper the air flow.

Nice greetings, Berndt

Bing Yang 5th October 2006 01:33 AM

Why did you abandon transmission line design?
 
Cyburgs,

I happened to be in the process of making a MLTL box for a 4" full range. The dimensions are very close to yours. It is relatively easy for me to put the divders in the box to change to your design.

What I don't understand is that your needle design is a TQWT. Why did you switch to this double bass reflex design? Can it achieve better bass than TQWT or MLTL?

Scioneer 5th October 2006 02:01 AM

nice Speakers.


BTW, I think your cat is plotting their destruction with that look on his face. :smash:


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