Hello Odougbo!
I was wondering if you or anyone else here can answer a question for me. Are drivers that are suitable for a Onken/Fonken enclosure also suitable for usage in back-loaded horns?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The reason I ask is I've recently made a friend in South Korea after being introduced by a mutual audio friend and Lee is willing to purchase a pair of the Sonodyne SD-855 eight inch fullrange drivers on my behalf. These SD-855 drivers are made from Hanji paper as seen above ---{Hanji paper is similar to the paper Feastrex makes for their drivers}--- and it would seem that Hanji paper must either be very expensive to make or else it must sound extraordinarily good and hopefully if it includes the first of these two reasons it also includes the second reason!
The reason I believe Hanji paper must sound very good is because I noticed an Altec 515 15" woofer that's reconed with Hanji paper is selling for $3500 on eBay as seen here: Altec 515A woofers rebuilt with hand made Hanji cones. Please take a moment to look at the photos of the Altec 515 woofers after they've been reconed with Hanji paper. The photos taken from the rear/side are the most interesting to see.
Personally I just cannot imagine anyone taking a very expensive handmade paper like Hanji paper if it doesn't also sound very, very good to use when reconing a vintage, fine sounding Altec 515 woofer! Oh yes I also noticed there's a pair of Sonodynes dome supertweeters that uses Hanji paper and they sell for $750pr on eBay: Sonodyne Hanji Super Tweeters
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So I've decided I'm going to send Lee in S. Korea the money via paypal for a pair of the Sonodyne SD-855 8" fullrange drivers so I can see for myself how good or bad they actually sound, but I still want to know if I'll be limited to just using an Onken/Fonken enclosure like Sonodyne does up above or if I'll also have other options with these drivers?
I'll be sure to let everyone know when the Sonodyne SD-855 drivers finally arrive and want to say thanks for your time to anyone who chooses to help me by responding...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
I dunno Tom,
As an example the guy wants $3500 for a single Altec 515 bass driver that has been reconed with Hanji paper. This is strictly a LF driver, I could see maybe some betterment from cone material upgrade if such a large speaker was one that was frequently crossed over higher, like say a 416 where there is a chance it could modify cone resonance and breakup modes, etc.
That said it could well be that if Hanji paper is used to replace conventional paper cone on a small full-range driver that some improvement could be heard, but the fact that the seller is offering this treatment to a LF driver indicates to me that he is just trying to scam all the money he can make.
This really reminds me of the expression "a fool and his money". Consider that you can buy quite a few magic dots for $3,500.00 !
As an example the guy wants $3500 for a single Altec 515 bass driver that has been reconed with Hanji paper. This is strictly a LF driver, I could see maybe some betterment from cone material upgrade if such a large speaker was one that was frequently crossed over higher, like say a 416 where there is a chance it could modify cone resonance and breakup modes, etc.
That said it could well be that if Hanji paper is used to replace conventional paper cone on a small full-range driver that some improvement could be heard, but the fact that the seller is offering this treatment to a LF driver indicates to me that he is just trying to scam all the money he can make.
This really reminds me of the expression "a fool and his money". Consider that you can buy quite a few magic dots for $3,500.00 !
+1 on "a fool and his money"
When I first learned of the 515 re-cones awhile back, my opinion was that they were ruining one of the best driver designs done to date, relegating it to OB/IB apps or at worst, a very large aperiodically damped alignment.
Note too that drivers with a high degree of 'inner detail' is another way of saying more 'euphonically distorted', i.e. has a higher order of bending and/or breakup modes, so the high damping of a horn will tend to negate some/all of these plus could cause outright worse harmonic distortion even at modest power due to the general flimsiness of diaphragm construction required.
Just because the specs indicate horn loading, it doesn't mean it will turn out well overall if it's an ultra-wide BW unit.
GM
When I first learned of the 515 re-cones awhile back, my opinion was that they were ruining one of the best driver designs done to date, relegating it to OB/IB apps or at worst, a very large aperiodically damped alignment.
Note too that drivers with a high degree of 'inner detail' is another way of saying more 'euphonically distorted', i.e. has a higher order of bending and/or breakup modes, so the high damping of a horn will tend to negate some/all of these plus could cause outright worse harmonic distortion even at modest power due to the general flimsiness of diaphragm construction required.
Just because the specs indicate horn loading, it doesn't mean it will turn out well overall if it's an ultra-wide BW unit.
GM
Tom,
Your pictures are MIA
Generally no. And the opposite is also generally the case.
Specs?
dave
Your pictures are MIA
Generally no. And the opposite is also generally the case.
Specs?
dave
How so? He asks playing a bit of devil's advocate here to make sure we're all on the same 'page'.
GM
Banned
Joined 2002
Since i have moved over to the Bright side 
( full range ) i have fallen in love with my precious babies.
Thanks to Planet10 with the donated drivers & Bernie for building the speaker cabinets with great detail and to my exact liking
Since i love them so much i might be replacing these drivers with some brand new babies so i can keep the color.. ( factory colour is appealing to me )
Thanks to my dad & planet10 for helping me with cap values for the ribbon tweeter.
Installing Driver,
Adjusting the phase plug for no rub
setup:
When i get back from training i plan on ordering 2 chassis for my aleph mini's to get them back into the loop.. ( dam i miss my aleph's )
( full range ) i have fallen in love with my precious babies.Thanks to Planet10 with the donated drivers & Bernie for building the speaker cabinets with great detail and to my exact liking
Since i love them so much i might be replacing these drivers with some brand new babies so i can keep the color.. ( factory colour is appealing to me )
Thanks to my dad & planet10 for helping me with cap values for the ribbon tweeter.
Installing Driver,
Adjusting the phase plug for no rub
setup:
When i get back from training i plan on ordering 2 chassis for my aleph mini's to get them back into the loop.. ( dam i miss my aleph's )
Excluding Frugel-Horn Mk3, most of the drivers that are put in horns will not work in my my miniOnken.
But thinking about it, Scott has used the same MA drivers in his horns that i use in the miniOnken, so a generalization cannot be made.
On the other hand, the Fostex used in Scott's horns won't work in a miniOnken (they can be aligned the same but make no bass -- ie FE126En in miniOnken alignment makes about 120 Hz)
Why i look at each driver on an individual basis. I'm going to guess that what Tom is angling at is to put the Korean driver into his Sachiko. None of the drivers known to work in it, work in my miniOnken and visa-versa (that would have coloured my statement)
dave
'Bigger' as in much larger than Vas for a vented alignment [~30.94 L MLTLs = ~5.072*Vas] as opposed to some folks dogmatically declaring no driver should be vented beyond its Vas, though I'm not against truly BIG vented either
if done right. The trade-off of course is reduced LF power handling, so as always, in-room performance is a balance of room gain curve Vs speaker power handling, but the larger, lower tuned speaker has more in-room tuning flexibility and normally once dialed in has an audibly close/same perceived performance of a large sealed alignment except with more gain BW, which usually means a superior performance overall than a smaller, higher tuned alignment IME.
This assumes a typical stereo layout of course, so normally doesn't apply to bookshelf, near-field monitors, etc., though a pair of 126E? floorstander BIBs really 'opened up' once set on top of the large corner table they had been beside.
GM
very nice, and glad you like them...
jleaman: They look very well done (kudos to Bernie). From my limited experience with him, he is a dedicated guy with excellent skills and is extremely generous. What tweeters are you using? What caps (Dave?)
I can't say I love the colour, but who cares? It's the sound that's the magic
jleaman: They look very well done (kudos to Bernie). From my limited experience with him, he is a dedicated guy with excellent skills and is extremely generous. What tweeters are you using? What caps (Dave?)
I can't say I love the colour, but who cares? It's the sound that's the magic
Banned
Joined 2002
jleaman: They look very well done (kudos to Bernie). From my limited experience with him, he is a dedicated guy with excellent skills and is extremely generous. What tweeters are you using? What caps (Dave?)
I can't say I love the colour, but who cares? It's the sound that's the magic
will get cap value when i get home, as im out of the country.
Tweeter was from dave ( did a swap ) G2si
Color will be changed for sure
Was a free pair of experimental drivers and they still work very well. Now im hooked and want a brand new set The best part about all this, the wife approved LOL free speakers and they look dam good. Bernie has a GREAT eye for detail..
Dave that's strange, but I'll respost the photos. As you can see Sonodyne will sell you the SD-855FS which consists of a pair of SD-855 drivers in an Onken/Fonken enclosure for $1380 in S. Korea. Of course then you'd have to pay to have them shipped, insured to the USA.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Or if you prefer you can obtain the SD-855 drivers drivers by themselves for $700pr in S. Korea, but once again you'd have to pay to have them shipped, insured to the USA in addition to the initial charge of the drivers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Sonodyne makes many different drivers using Hanji paper including various dome tweeters and even their version of a Walsh driver made from Hanji paper for $5200pr in some nice looking enclosures as seen here:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Finally you can check out Sonodynes many different types of drivers that use Hanji paper here: Sonodyne of S. Korea
I'm going to try a pair of the eight inch, Hanji paper SD-855 fullrange drivers to see how they sound.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Note Tom, that they may well be in an Onken, but Fonken is a P10-hifi trademark/design and althou they have a passing similarity to an Onken, they are not tuned the same way. You would not likely see a vent that wide on a P10-hifi Fonken/miniOnken box.
dave
Right, it's my understanding that the original Onken [the brand name] were little ducted port monitors after Jensen, so doing a QB3 alignment with [6] vents in WinISD Pro pretty much spits out the box shown in ~ size, though as is also my understanding, it doesn't meet the vent area criteria of the Onken alignment we know today.
GM
GM
Dave I meant no offense and certainly hope none was taken when I refered to the Sonodyne enclosure for their SD-855 drivers as being either an Onken or Fonken. I was just refering to the only two enclosure types that I knew of that looked the most similar to what I was seeing, that way other diyAudio readers would understand what I was refering to when I was attempting to describe the enclosures they came in.
When I finally get the Sonodyne SD-855 drivers delivered I'll be sure to post their specs here on diyAudio.com so that those who are more knowledgeable about drivers can tell me what enclosure type would be optimal! That is provided Sonodyne furnished the specs with the drivers when I receive them.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
OT - Is it just me, or does using a single cone material (even of very high quality) such as apparently depicted in the Sonodyne "Walsh" inspired full-range system seem counter to the original design brief of using three materials with considerably different densities and thicknesses?
IIRC it was titanium, aluminum and fairly thick pulped paper.
back to the regularly scheduled programme
IIRC it was titanium, aluminum and fairly thick pulped paper.
back to the regularly scheduled programme
Banned
Joined 2002