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Old 23rd August 2005, 08:59 AM   #1
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Arrow Searching for good 16cm (6.5') fullrange Drivers ...

Hello !

A friend wants me to design him a speaker system with a correct impact and nice bass extension down to ~ 35Hz.

He has a budget of arround 450 euros, wood excluded (he's a carpenter )

I was looking for a Supravox 165 LB or 165GMF in a backloaded horn, that could go down to 35Hz with punch (amplified pulse of the horn), and eventualy completed by a Fostex FT17H tweeter.

Horns seem to be quite big and when I told him it could be 1m80 high, he was wondering if there was no way to obtain the same results, with the same musicality (so, excluding the use of a sub), in a smaller enclosure. However, he's enough room for such an enclosure, and he's ready to accept this kind of "monster"

I found the 6.5' driver type to be the best compromise for this price range, but others size may be suitable to, I don't know.

So, I ask everybody here if they know a 16cm/6.5' driver apart from the Supravox and Fostex that would be suitable for this use, or any other suggestion.

Thanks in advance !
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Old 23rd August 2005, 09:38 AM   #2
MBK is offline MBK  Singapore
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You could try the Diatone P-610MB, available from EIFL, Japan . They sell new for USD 500 + 50 shipping. It has quite some following, and was originally developed as a studi monitor for Japanese radio stations. A "modern vintage" so to speak.

I am using them in a fullrange setup. Very low moving mass (7 grams), detailed, suitable for ported cabinet, flat FR up to 16 kHz, Fs 80Hz-ish.

They won't go down to 35 Hz though, I believe. I use helper woofers for the LF extension. Still, musically speaking they are excellent and a FR likely won't do HT capable bass, ever, unless you use horns ...

As a matter of fact, I was considering parting with my Diatones because in the dipole setup they are somehow out of place (they don't have the needed very high excursion capability). Xmax is 2 mm, which is higher than most Fostexes, but not as high as modern non-fullrange woofers (usually 5 mm for a 6.5") . E-mail me off forum if interested...

Another site on the Diatone:

http://www.audionautes.com/Altriprod.../DataP-610.htm
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Old 23rd August 2005, 09:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: Searching for good 16cm (6.5') fullrange Drivers ...

Quote:
Originally posted by youyoung21147
Hello !

A friend wants me to design him a speaker system with a correct impact and nice bass extension down to ~ 35Hz.

He has a budget of arround 450 euros, wood excluded (he's a carpenter )
How about Jordan JX92S in GM's MLTL-48? They'll fit in budget and go down to 35Hz. And it's not 1.80m high. The plans can be found here:
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/diy/index.html

Bonne chance avec le projet
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Old 23rd August 2005, 09:58 AM   #4
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
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As a carpenter he shouldn´t have a problem making a nice replica of a cain&cain abby.
http://www.cain-cain.com/abby/
FE-166E is originally used (me thinks) but somebody here made a clone with a 167E as well.
It´s a tall speaker but the actual cross-section-area is not very big.

greets
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Old 23rd August 2005, 12:50 PM   #5
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MBK : the Diatone seems to be a good candidate ! it has a really smooth FR. Mybe I'm wrong but doesn't it seems to be discontinued ? I will ask my friend if he's ready to pay 550$ for these units, which I'm not sure of .

Landroval : I told much my friend about the JX92 reputation, he told me it seemed to be a good driver he would choose in second place(he doesn't know much about speakers) but he asked if it had impact. I simulated it and it seems not to have more impact than my FX120. Therefore, it's not a very good candidate at this time. (Looking at its waterfall spectrum, I've been quite impressed by its results. Damps almost everything in 1ms!)

joensd : these enclosures seem to be TQWTs don't they ?
My friend has some FE127e and I suppose the FE167 has the same kind of sound (not bad but a little cold and "empty"). He compared my FX-120 to his FE127 and was convinced he would like to have more "high ended" drivers, and I approve him. (maybe I'm wrong but the FE167 I could touch, but not hear unfortunately, was built the same way in the same materials)

Apart from these drivers, does anyone have tried some 165 Supravox ? they do look promising also !

Concerning the quasi-supertweeters, do you think this project would deserve some better tweeters than the FT17H ?


Well, thanks for your replies, I just have to tell my friend about this tonight, cause right now he's building me a stand for my TangBand speakers
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Old 23rd August 2005, 01:23 PM   #6
MBK is offline MBK  Singapore
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Hi yy,

just curious: how do you quantify and simulate "impact"?
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Old 23rd August 2005, 01:47 PM   #7
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I use Martin J King's "closed box" worksheet and simulate a really huge enclosure (dozens m3) that stands for an infinite baffle. In the bottom of the sheet, a graph entitled "sound pressure in time domain" shows the impulse response of the driver, graduated in Pa (pascals). From what I've simulated and heard till now it seems to be very accurate.

It's what I call impact, I think this methods allows to foresee accurately the ability of a driver to reproduce strong impulsions with realism.
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Old 23rd August 2005, 02:26 PM   #8
hacknet is offline hacknet  Singapore
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i`ve got a pair of coral flat 6s. they do rather well covering both extremes reasonably well when driven by a current amp.
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Old 23rd August 2005, 02:44 PM   #9
MBK is offline MBK  Singapore
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Hmmm... that sounds to me as though all you get is a reflection of a driver's open air Q. In other words, in a properly aligned box allowing for optimal impulse response (Q 0.5) , tailored to each driver, the waveforms you get should be identical for the different drivers...
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Old 23rd August 2005, 03:01 PM   #10
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Except with horns, which emit a double pulse, other designs seem to have the same "impact" than the infinite baffle. I simulated sealed boxes, TQWTs, bass reflex, and TLs and all keep the driver's impulse response shape in an infinite baffle. What varies after are the resonnances inside the box that may affect the impulsion damping. It also seems that bass reflex attenuates the impulse response a little, explaining people's preference for TLs and TQWTs IMHO.

The waveform is always approximately the same, but its amplitude varies.
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