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Old 27th July 2005, 06:28 AM   #1
DMD is offline DMD  United States
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Default Most appropriate driver/enclosure/design for full orchestra source material?

I thought I'd decided which driver and enclosure to go with as my first project, until I came upon the opinion that full-range-driver designs generally didn't do well with music along the lines of, say, Wagner's Ring.

95% of my listening is acoustic, and most of it is simple, mainly classical/traditional world music and early music; I don't listen to much of the heavy-dynamic-complex sort of thing, but what I do listen to in this category is deeply meaningful to me. I'd love to be able to accommodate everything well in a full-range design.

Comments or suggestions, anyone?
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Old 27th July 2005, 07:47 AM   #2
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Default Re: Most appropriate driver/enclosure/design for full orchestra source material?

Quote:
Originally posted by DMD
I thought I'd decided which driver and enclosure to go with as my first project, until I came upon the opinion that full-range-driver designs generally didn't do well with music along the lines of, say, Wagner's Ring.

95% of my listening is acoustic, and most of it is simple, mainly classical/traditional world music and early music; I don't listen to much of the heavy-dynamic-complex sort of thing, but what I do listen to in this category is deeply meaningful to me. I'd love to be able to accommodate everything well in a full-range design.

Comments or suggestions, anyone?
My first recommendation would be systems using the Jordan JX92S if you really want the feel of the concert hall. That is listening levels would not be louder than what you would hear in a concert hall. My definition of concert halls is like those in Europe, old style non-rectagular shaped.
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Old 27th July 2005, 08:30 AM   #3
RAndyB is offline RAndyB  United Kingdom
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My musical taste is similar to yours, DMD.
I have a pair of Jordan JX92S. Currently in "open baffles" - each in half a sheet of chipboard. Excellent detail, but not much bass as you can imagine.
The "real" enclosures are still in the garage with the glue just dried. In a few days I can give you more information on how they sound.
As I am nearly 60 years old, my hearing is less than acute at the top end, but I like to hear bass as one would in the concert hall.
Here's hoping.
Regards,
Andy
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Old 27th July 2005, 04:19 PM   #4
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dmd

if you really want big sound, you have to go with big speakers. i really enjoy full ranger drivers, but they do have their limits. if you listen at lower to moderate levels, full rangers work well. but if you listen louder and to more complex music, then they begin to falter. i find full rangers to excel at acoustic and small jazz groups. an amazing "thereness."

a couple options may be a full ranger with the bottom end rolling off, (say around 200-300hz) with a simple circuit, with a larger, pro sound woofer filling in the bottom. the pro sound woofers are light, quick and match well with the full rangers. you can find some posts here with regards to this. freeing the full ranger of the lower bass notes increases the dynamics and clarity of the full ranger. (a direction i'm serioulsy considering)

the other option would be to go big with horns and a large woofer, ala Pi Speakers. these take more room, but give a big, coherant sound.

full rangers aren't for everyone, but are very satisfying for those who have given them the opportunity. best of luck!
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Old 27th July 2005, 05:16 PM   #5
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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Adding to the chorus in favour of the JX92 ...

I've built a pair of GM's 48" MLTLs shown on the Jordan DIY page (www.ejjordan.co.uk/diy) and have been using them for a couple of months now on a range of music, including world, jazz and orchestral. They are wonderful on orchestral and opera (and I'm not a fan of opera), capturing a lot of the warmth and depth of a good performance. Live opera via FM radio is terrific, with a tremendous sense of where everyone is on the stage. The coherence of using a single driver per side really helps pull out the threads of classical music. At the moment, I'm really enjoying the BBC Proms season via these speakers.

I haven't heard the shorter MLTLs but Bruce, who started a thread on this forum, seems to have built most variants and commented that the taller design is warmer sounding and has more bass. I can confirm that they reach the mid-30Hz range and the stereo at those frequencies adds more to the music than I was expecting.

Ted Jordan is a mostly classical music listener, I believe, so these drivers are optimised for that kind of material.

Regarding volume level - I am using them in a 19 feet by 10 feet open plan lounge (it opens into the rest of the house) and have them along one long wall, listening across the width of the room. At this distance, their volume levels are fine for me on orchestral, using a 15 watt Naim amplifier.

So far, the only design I have heard to compete with them have been electrostatics, but these reach deeper into the bass.

Hope these impressions are of use.

Colin
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Old 27th July 2005, 07:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Most appropriate driver/enclosure/design for full orchestra source material?

Quote:
Originally posted by DMD
I thought I'd decided which driver and enclosure to go with as my first project, until I came upon the opinion that full-range-driver designs generally didn't do well with music along the lines of, say, Wagner's Ring.
That is pretty much my experience - Full range drivers are at their
best with simple material, and when you get into the dynamics
and complexity of a full orchestra, they are not as satisfactory
as multi-driver setups.
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Old 27th July 2005, 07:08 PM   #7
Dumbass is offline Dumbass  British Antarctic Territory
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What is your budget?

Also, what is the size of your listening environment and what sort of levels do you want?

If you want to be the dude in that old Maxell ad, single driver won't do it unless you get into really nice drivers in large backhorns.

On the other hand, I find my FE207E in simple vented cabs pretty darned good even with "heavy" material. But I live in an apartment and couldn't listen at very high levels even if I wanted to.

I would try to find someone with a single driver setup in your area and audition.

One more question, how skilled are you at woodworking? If so, a backhorn for an 8" driver could give you a lot more punch than a simple vented cabinet.
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Old 27th July 2005, 09:29 PM   #8
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Hi DMD ,
i like the Baßtuba with the Mangers and Pass-Amplifiers .
See the webpage from Horst Möller :
www.hm-moreart.de

Greetings from Germany

Jürgen
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Old 28th July 2005, 12:13 AM   #9
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Default Re: Re: Most appropriate driver/enclosure/design for full orchestra source material?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nelson Pass


That is pretty much my experience - Full range drivers are at their
best with simple material, and when you get into the dynamics
and complexity of a full orchestra, they are not as satisfactory
as multi-driver setups.
I would agree with this before I started to try out some 3" full range (well not so full) drivers. Some full range drivers of 20 years old did show these limitations. Now these limitation have been reduced significantly at levels one would experience about 10th two 20th row in a European concert hall. Many people like to listen at levels higer than this, then you will reach these limits more frequently. If the resolution of the drivers are not good enough, one would tent to turn up the volume to hear the details, then yes, you will reach these limitation easily. Not all full range drivers are equal.

A recent comparison among some full range drivers show that all soound quite good, better than what I listened to (Jordan Watts) for many years. But the current Jordan drivers just give that little more resolution revealing those details a little better. The sound field is also more coherent. I wish I could explain why through some measured data, but I currently see differences that I'm not able to relate with what I hear yet. Perhaps I need to rethink some of my test method hierarchy.
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Old 28th July 2005, 12:18 AM   #10
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally posted by audiotux
Hi DMD ,
i like the Baßtuba with the Mangers and Pass-Amplifiers .
See the webpage from Horst Möller :
www.hm-moreart.de

Greetings from Germany

Jürgen
Lots of people like the MANGERS, I had listened to their 103, and for some reason they did sound a bit muffled. I though it might have been due to the humidity here, but MANGER insisted that they feel the surrounding damping material would not attract humidity, so I don't really know what the cause was. The store had more expensive equipment than I.
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