maybe soft magets survive UPS better ? import Pyle's horrible HF compression drivers have hard/weak/heavy magets but that wasn't much problem on 3 of ones I got as voice coils were open.
I've never heard of a soft (ferrite) slug. any construction and design details on your double bass reflex cabinet? (is it Fostex?)
got late Bob Bullock's DBR boxmodel DOS but crappy earthlink's not worked for a year, support is outsourced and useless so can't uplink - maybe it' go into DIY? - its a bit buggy so sometimes enitries must be double-checked against vent lengths then re-entered.
traditional DBR like Augspruger's were 2:1 chamber ratio with 3 vents all the same and might remove some "signiture" at expense of a mild dip. I'd show example of plots but never been able to do a screen shot on XP PC - ugh
regarding pleats surrounds - I'd like to see some stuff - Abraham Cohen's book suggested wide pleated surrrounds could introduce a dip - guess depends upon design and damping applied
I've never heard of a soft (ferrite) slug. any construction and design details on your double bass reflex cabinet? (is it Fostex?)
got late Bob Bullock's DBR boxmodel DOS but crappy earthlink's not worked for a year, support is outsourced and useless so can't uplink - maybe it' go into DIY? - its a bit buggy so sometimes enitries must be double-checked against vent lengths then re-entered.
traditional DBR like Augspruger's were 2:1 chamber ratio with 3 vents all the same and might remove some "signiture" at expense of a mild dip. I'd show example of plots but never been able to do a screen shot on XP PC - ugh
regarding pleats surrounds - I'd like to see some stuff - Abraham Cohen's book suggested wide pleated surrrounds could introduce a dip - guess depends upon design and damping applied
AN Super 8
I have been watching the threads closely about this line of drivers and I have to say, that I am a little disappointed in the behavior concerning them. Even after reading all the negative posts about them (which hold no more water that the positive ones) I decided to take a chance and see what they are all about. No, I didn't buy them because they are cheaper than Fostex. (I own 5 pairs of fostex for god sakes, not to mention the super 8's cost more than the fostex 206 after shipping). I just wanted to see what they were about. I wanted to see if they work well and if they will suit my needs. Isn't this hobby supposed to be about the enjoyment of discovery? In fact, many people who have commented on them know nothing about them. Sure, the guy that sells them, sells them in a somewhat slipshod way, and sure, he says all sorts of things that just don't hold water. So what? He doesn't make them. He rebadges them. Once, when I was in the cigar business years ago, I knew a man named Paul Gramarian. He created a fine brand of cigars called PG (which many of you may know). He was a jerk, had shoddy business practices and overall was just a waste of air. But, he sold a damn fine cigar. Did I avoid smoking them because I didn't like the way he did business? No, that would be just plain ignorant. So, I have to say shame on those of you that speak of this line of drivers with such distain.
Bob Brines, My super 8's don't have a fridge magnet, they have what appears to be a silicon coating over a ceramic magnet. They have a coated cloth surround, not the paper that you claim. Now of course I am talking of the super 8 and not the six so your's may have these attributes. A few questions as you seem to know this line of drivers. Did you break them in? Did you build a proper enclosure for them? Did you work out the filter and do tens or even hundreds of hours of listening to come up with your opinion? I really would like to know your experience with them.
The kind of behavior I have seen concerning this driver makes me sick. No one talks garbage about the NSB or even the RS 40-1197. Even worse examples of quality. I own them as well and enjoy them immensely for what they are. So, many of you have condemned a manufacturer because the guy that sells them is a jerk. This is precicely the reason that I don't regularly post. I see information that is flawed quite regularly from people that know enough just to be dangerous. Get over it and remember why the hobby is great. Discovery.
Now, on to better subject matter. I am quite excited to see how these speakers perform. I almost have a horn worked out for them and will probably begin building this weekend. A few notes on the appearance.
A- They are well packaged in foam with cone covers. Not to rip Fostex but I like this better than the cardboard configuration that Fostex uses. Not that it matters much.
B- The quality of these drivers looks quite good. The paper is clear and free of defects, the surround is in good shape and looks very durable yet very pliable. The baskets are standard stamped steel just like Fostex and pretty much most others. The phase plugs look to be of good quality aluminum, not slipshod at all.
C- Magnets. They DON'T APPEAR TO BE FRIDGE MAGNETS. They appear to be some sort of silicon coated ceramic.
So all in all they appear to be well made drivers that are heavy as sin.
I acknowledge that there is a possiblity of them being garbage, but, you know what? If I don't like them? All I have to do is send them back to Mr. Dicks and get a full credit towards a pair of Lowthers. No? Win/win situation? I think so.
Tom
I have been watching the threads closely about this line of drivers and I have to say, that I am a little disappointed in the behavior concerning them. Even after reading all the negative posts about them (which hold no more water that the positive ones) I decided to take a chance and see what they are all about. No, I didn't buy them because they are cheaper than Fostex. (I own 5 pairs of fostex for god sakes, not to mention the super 8's cost more than the fostex 206 after shipping). I just wanted to see what they were about. I wanted to see if they work well and if they will suit my needs. Isn't this hobby supposed to be about the enjoyment of discovery? In fact, many people who have commented on them know nothing about them. Sure, the guy that sells them, sells them in a somewhat slipshod way, and sure, he says all sorts of things that just don't hold water. So what? He doesn't make them. He rebadges them. Once, when I was in the cigar business years ago, I knew a man named Paul Gramarian. He created a fine brand of cigars called PG (which many of you may know). He was a jerk, had shoddy business practices and overall was just a waste of air. But, he sold a damn fine cigar. Did I avoid smoking them because I didn't like the way he did business? No, that would be just plain ignorant. So, I have to say shame on those of you that speak of this line of drivers with such distain.
Bob Brines, My super 8's don't have a fridge magnet, they have what appears to be a silicon coating over a ceramic magnet. They have a coated cloth surround, not the paper that you claim. Now of course I am talking of the super 8 and not the six so your's may have these attributes. A few questions as you seem to know this line of drivers. Did you break them in? Did you build a proper enclosure for them? Did you work out the filter and do tens or even hundreds of hours of listening to come up with your opinion? I really would like to know your experience with them.
The kind of behavior I have seen concerning this driver makes me sick. No one talks garbage about the NSB or even the RS 40-1197. Even worse examples of quality. I own them as well and enjoy them immensely for what they are. So, many of you have condemned a manufacturer because the guy that sells them is a jerk. This is precicely the reason that I don't regularly post. I see information that is flawed quite regularly from people that know enough just to be dangerous. Get over it and remember why the hobby is great. Discovery.
Now, on to better subject matter. I am quite excited to see how these speakers perform. I almost have a horn worked out for them and will probably begin building this weekend. A few notes on the appearance.
A- They are well packaged in foam with cone covers. Not to rip Fostex but I like this better than the cardboard configuration that Fostex uses. Not that it matters much.
B- The quality of these drivers looks quite good. The paper is clear and free of defects, the surround is in good shape and looks very durable yet very pliable. The baskets are standard stamped steel just like Fostex and pretty much most others. The phase plugs look to be of good quality aluminum, not slipshod at all.
C- Magnets. They DON'T APPEAR TO BE FRIDGE MAGNETS. They appear to be some sort of silicon coated ceramic.
So all in all they appear to be well made drivers that are heavy as sin.
I acknowledge that there is a possiblity of them being garbage, but, you know what? If I don't like them? All I have to do is send them back to Mr. Dicks and get a full credit towards a pair of Lowthers. No? Win/win situation? I think so.
Tom
I'm with Bob on this as his views tally with my own, albeit limited experience. He clearly states (as you'd expect, really) what he did and did not do, his preferences and why, and raises some good technical points such as relative magnet size to BL factor, particularly when read in conjunction with his Audioroundtable post. He also has considerable experience with drivers and cabinets, as you've probably noticed, so he knows what works, their behaviour, and what needs to be adjusted for optimising.
I was listening to a pair of Standard 8s in a Martin King ML TQWT at the weeked -I'd re-run the sim in MathCad for a friend to re-work the vent dimensions for the AN driver. They sounded pretty good to my ears, though lacking the fine detail, smoothness and ultimate build-quality of the 207. Not bad at all, just not quite in the same leage. No comments on the bloke who imports the drivers, other than to note that I'm less than convinced about his cabinets, and whenever I see a website with lots of testimonies, alarm bells start to go off in my head. That's a different issue though. As for the drivers, I can't see a good reason why anyone should not try them out, but IMO the Fostex is still the canny choice, especially as it costs little more, and in some cases, can be aquired more cheaply.
I was listening to a pair of Standard 8s in a Martin King ML TQWT at the weeked -I'd re-run the sim in MathCad for a friend to re-work the vent dimensions for the AN driver. They sounded pretty good to my ears, though lacking the fine detail, smoothness and ultimate build-quality of the 207. Not bad at all, just not quite in the same leage. No comments on the bloke who imports the drivers, other than to note that I'm less than convinced about his cabinets, and whenever I see a website with lots of testimonies, alarm bells start to go off in my head. That's a different issue though. As for the drivers, I can't see a good reason why anyone should not try them out, but IMO the Fostex is still the canny choice, especially as it costs little more, and in some cases, can be aquired more cheaply.
Hi everybody,
my two cents: I used AN8 and AN8 super both in 2 cu.ft standard reflex. I added a series resistor on both to keep them more reflex friendly. I used a simple coil/resistor notch to tame the usual rising frequency response. All in all some nice dricers in my (and others) ears!
For my taste FE206e has a bit more detail in the midrange but that's only marginal.
Can't tell a lot about the 6.5" versions but a simple reflex will work as well.
The real suprise is AN10 super!! This baby rocks for sure. The TSP are just perfect for reflex and a 3 cu.ft enclosure serves 100%.
Packaging as well as look & feel are appropriate for a driver of this price range (6.5 - 10" model).
Regards
Thorsten
my two cents: I used AN8 and AN8 super both in 2 cu.ft standard reflex. I added a series resistor on both to keep them more reflex friendly. I used a simple coil/resistor notch to tame the usual rising frequency response. All in all some nice dricers in my (and others) ears!
For my taste FE206e has a bit more detail in the midrange but that's only marginal.
Can't tell a lot about the 6.5" versions but a simple reflex will work as well.
The real suprise is AN10 super!! This baby rocks for sure. The TSP are just perfect for reflex and a 3 cu.ft enclosure serves 100%.
Packaging as well as look & feel are appropriate for a driver of this price range (6.5 - 10" model).
Regards
Thorsten
thanks tunable makes sense - Morrow coats Super 10 with "something" - wonder what?
whats your impression of Super 10 on say jazz trio with well recorded drums - or odaiko? bowed bass is important to me too.
forgot to ask - what diameter speaker hole cutout did you use for Super 10? - - wondering if will drop into into a Druid size pipe cut for Legend B102
Best wishes, Freddy
some outdoors plots of old specification B102 in a straight pipe
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1076
whats your impression of Super 10 on say jazz trio with well recorded drums - or odaiko? bowed bass is important to me too.
forgot to ask - what diameter speaker hole cutout did you use for Super 10? - - wondering if will drop into into a Druid size pipe cut for Legend B102
Best wishes, Freddy
some outdoors plots of old specification B102 in a straight pipe
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1076
Freddy,
driver cutout is 230mm like in the spec sheet.
I first used a 4.5 cu.ft Onken tuned down to 35 Hz but this is too low! Bass is good and powerful but lacks a bit in the upper bass/low midrange.
The 3 cu.ft reflex is tuned to approx. 45 Hz which is far better. Bass is still powerful. I listen to Rock, Jazz and Classic.
Regards
Thorsten
driver cutout is 230mm like in the spec sheet.
I first used a 4.5 cu.ft Onken tuned down to 35 Hz but this is too low! Bass is good and powerful but lacks a bit in the upper bass/low midrange.
The 3 cu.ft reflex is tuned to approx. 45 Hz which is far better. Bass is still powerful. I listen to Rock, Jazz and Classic.
Regards
Thorsten
validator said:
hello thorsten,
in germany, we have to pay roughly 150 euro for the FE168ES, supposed to be "a killer" in a bib, and the AN10 super.
i think i read somewhere that you know the FE168ES very good. if you compare the 168es to the AN10 super, what is the better driver?
Regards
Mike
Hi Thorsten
how does 168 in recommended horn play bass and dynamics wise vs Super 10 in 3 cubic foot reflex? I've never heard back-loaded-horn and am mainly used to 12-15" coaxial in reflex and Karlson.
K doesn't go "low" but can hit it past 120db up close :^)
Freddy
15" in reflex "half-horn" cabinet
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3695/coax15vt1.jpg
how does 168 in recommended horn play bass and dynamics wise vs Super 10 in 3 cubic foot reflex? I've never heard back-loaded-horn and am mainly used to 12-15" coaxial in reflex and Karlson.
K doesn't go "low" but can hit it past 120db up close :^)
Freddy
15" in reflex "half-horn" cabinet
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3695/coax15vt1.jpg
Freddy,
good question! The performance of a horn is quite unique. Dynamics and "force" of FE168e is very good. Placed close to a wall bass is really good but can't compete with the "punch" of AN10 reflex.
Two points:
1. Fullrange drivers are always a compromise - 20-20000Hz (+/- 3dB) with one driver are (nearly) impossible.
2. You can't beat Physics - a 10" driver has a better bass performance than a 6.5".
Regards
Thorsten
good question! The performance of a horn is quite unique. Dynamics and "force" of FE168e is very good. Placed close to a wall bass is really good but can't compete with the "punch" of AN10 reflex.
Two points:
1. Fullrange drivers are always a compromise - 20-20000Hz (+/- 3dB) with one driver are (nearly) impossible.
2. You can't beat Physics - a 10" driver has a better bass performance than a 6.5".
Regards
Thorsten
Amen. That said, the BIB with 168 will, if correctly positioned in-room, be pretty much flat to 30Hz at 94db efficiency. Horn loading, as Thorsten says, has it's benefits. And the BIB is a full 1/2 wavelength horn at that, so they thunder. Must model one for the AN 10in. Won't be small, but you can't have everything in this life!
FWIW, I was listening to a friend's FE206E based folded TQWTs at the weekend, during Eggfest. They need a touch of tweaking (some mass-loading would help a little IMO), but even as-is, they worked superbly. Lovely throaty roar across the mid and upper bass, and a real kick in the upper chest on the LF. Good on vocals and great for rock.
FWIW, I was listening to a friend's FE206E based folded TQWTs at the weekend, during Eggfest. They need a touch of tweaking (some mass-loading would help a little IMO), but even as-is, they worked superbly. Lovely throaty roar across the mid and upper bass, and a real kick in the upper chest on the LF. Good on vocals and great for rock.
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