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Old 7th April 2005, 02:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
An array gives you a sound image to match your large video image. With power tapering you can achieve great imaging and the distance vs SPL advantage of arrays makes for a very much larger sweet spot and it makes off axis listening more balanced than is possible with ANY point source speaker
Very true... when we finally get HD3D up & happening again, the sound system will be very tall line arrays with horns on the bottom for all those same reasons

dave
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Old 7th April 2005, 02:52 AM   #22
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Dan thanks for input.
I have not seen any off-axis freq response posted so I was just fishing for input from anyone who may have some experience with the extremis. My plan seems to have changed from when I originally posted this thread. I thought I wanted a single driver to cover the 120- 5000hz range, but I don't think this is possible given off-axis coverage requirements for home theater, which in my house is just as important as music.

I do know that I like the sound of midwoofer on open baffle, since I have played around with several on a test baffle using an adjustable active crossover. At low volumes, I prefered them running all the way down to around 100, but obviously all the 5" drivers ran out of excursion at higher volumes. At the high end I either liked to cross to tweater below 1500hz or much higher above 4k. Placing the mid/tweater crossover between those 2 extremes just didn't sound right. I realize that most of 2-ways I have seen or read about use a crossover in the 2-2.5k region, but it doesn't sound right to me.

I do have a few Scanspeak 1.5" tweaters that can cross that low using a 4th order active and that there is a whole school of Linkwitz deciples who swear by the Orion design.
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Old 7th April 2005, 06:34 AM   #23
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Dave,

Are you going to try a center channel (bessel maybe) ? I've tried a few different things and with the big image I always find the phantom center best because I don't like the supposedly sonically invisible screens and having the center channel at the top or bottom just doesn't work for me. I always localize it too high or too low. Is there something I'm missing?
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Old 7th April 2005, 06:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
Are you going to try a center channel (bessel maybe) ?
With 3D we need as much light as possible, so want to avoid the holes in the screen usually required for a centre channel. So we will try to get away without. The line arrays, and the increased distance to the 1st row required for digital projection will help a lot.

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Old 9th April 2005, 08:45 AM   #25
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Refering to my ears, I'd choose Fostex drivers for their extremely clear, detailed and sweet medium range, that easily extends down to 100Hz in a sealed box. Otherwise, I have the small TangBand w3 871s that are very linear and natural, but I think they are not as precise as Fostex.
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Old 21st June 2005, 03:37 AM   #26
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Default RE: Visaton B200

I am also thinking of getting a pair of these for OB. Bi-amp-ing, and using them only from 150hz to 10Khz, looking at the chart @

http://www.visaton.de/english/bildgr...quenzgang.html

and setting the crossover at say 150hz, am I correct to assume that the speakers will be more like 86db effective. If so, will a 300B SET at say 5-7 W be enough?
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Old 21st June 2005, 04:14 AM   #27
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I've heard the B200 is a fine driver to run full range. On OB an uptilted response is less objectionable because the rear wave doesn't have the high frequency content, so until you get down to where the bass starts rolling off due to the dipole effect, you actually pick up some efficiency from the rear wave.

Unless something comes out that is as economical, is as highly touted, and has at least a mid Q, they will be my next driver purchase.

I wouldn't stick any XO in their path until after I good runin period and felt it was still necessary. I like my bass nice and full, so I'd add a woofer for bass fill, keep the baffle small (maybe a U baffle for the woofer) and decide after listening where to roll the woofer off 1st order. Probably at more like 80-100hz. You'll want a good highish Q woofer that sounds good up to 1khz or so, because it will give you a lot more flexibility.
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Old 21st June 2005, 08:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
I've heard the B200 is a fine driver to run full range
Indeed it is... i ran the ones i had for a couple months, raw on OBs... there qas no hint of the upward slant seen in the graphs, and bass was just fine (limited in depth by the baffle size ~1.2x1.1m)

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Old 21st June 2005, 04:01 PM   #29
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Default For high SPLs with small drivers...

For high SPLs with small drivers use a Bessel array. A 5-element or 7-element Bessel array would work very well. The advantages of a Bessel array are a higher power-handling, and hence SPLs, and that the drivers together mimmick the off-axis response of a single unit. The disadvantages are a low total impedance, and that you would have to sit a bit further away than the norm (at least the distance equal to five times the length of the array).

Say you go for a 7-element array, the you only need 6 drive-units per side. In a 7-element array the 7th position, which is in the middle, is left blank. This will allow you to mount a tweeter there and have a co-axial 'driver'. If you go for a fullrange driver like the small Tangbands and the Fostexes (and don't want much output above 20kHz), then you can use a 5-element array.

Let's look at a quick example. A 5-element array using 3" drivers will be +/- 16" long (or high), therefor you'd have to sit at least 40" (or 1 meter) away for the drivers to integrate properly. If you can get 16-ohm drivers then that would work the best, as your total impedance would not be so low (unless you go full-active and drive each driver with it's own amp ). If you want more info on the Bessel array just let me know.

Enjoy,
Deon
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Old 21st June 2005, 06:11 PM   #30
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Deon,

I've tried the 5 and 7 element bessels and find the only real advantage is the point source dispersion. The spl gain is minimal because of the way it is wired. The big problem is the lack of imaging, like a big wall of sound coming out from between the speakers with no distinct audio image. Quite a strange to say the least. I've thought it would be great for something like a bar where a imaging isn't necessary.

Where the Bessel becomes a significant increase in SPL is with something like the 5 x 5 array where you use 25 drivers that have the dispersion of a point source speaker.
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