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Old 27th March 2005, 11:50 AM   #11
Ropie is offline Ropie  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR
My thought process is that the thick wood in such small dimensions will be quite dead and I'm hoping the resonant frequency of the pipe is well below that of the panels...I really don't think splitting or warping will be an issue due to the small sizes of the panels ensuring strong structural support. Temperature is a non-factor down here with 60-75 F year-round. I'll put some poly on the inside before sealing it up and rub some oil on the outside to fight against humidity. Plus they won't get any direct sunlight...Ease of construction strongly favors the hardwood to me...
Well, you've answered every one of your own questions. Why not just build them and let us know how they sound?

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Originally posted by Dave Jones
They say it took 175 years to figure out how to use soundboards like that. There would appear to be a learning curve. I also found this on the Bösendorfer web site: In order to guarantee this quality standard Bösendorfer has carried out countless tests before selecting the ideal speaker Cables and having them custom-tuned to our system.

Cough.
Ha ha! Speaker manufacturers - don't you just love 'em?
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Old 27th March 2005, 12:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Jones


I had never heard of them until I read your response, so I googled. They say it took 175 years to figure out how to use soundboards like that. There would appear to be a learning curve.

Cough.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. The Lord preserve us from large manufacturers waffle. Especially when they cost aroud £5000.
I bet they sound good on piano music though... (they'd better!)
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Old 27th March 2005, 02:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ropie

Well, you've answered every one of your own questions. Why not just build them and let us know how they sound?
One last question. Are braces OK in an MLTL? I was thinking that 1 or 2 well ventilated shelf braces would make these rock solid or would that be a real no-no ?
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Old 27th March 2005, 03:48 PM   #14
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One thing I would look out for with hardwood construction is shrinkage/expansion. I built my MLTL's out of baltic birch plywood and walnut. The drivers are mounted on the walnut. I built them in Iowa and then brought them down to North Carolina and I have to say the drivers fit quite a bit tighter now then when I built them.. I'm a little worried they will expand more over the summer, we'll see. Nothing a little sand paper can't solve. I would say go for it though, and I don't see any reason not to brace it, I've certainly got some shelf braces in my MLTL.
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Old 27th March 2005, 05:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by johninCR


One last question. Are braces OK in an MLTL? I was thinking that 1 or 2 well ventilated shelf braces would make these rock solid or would that be a real no-no ?

Perfectly acceptable, and well-worth the effort in my view, so long as you take into account their affect on the internal volume (very small, but I thought I'd best mention it.) I believe Bob Brines uses extensive bracing in his MLTL designs, and they are very well regarded -they measure superbly, and his cabinets have a reputation of being acoustically as dead as you're ever likely to get.
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Old 27th March 2005, 07:05 PM   #16
GM is offline GM  United States
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One just above the driver should be sufficient.

GM
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Old 28th March 2005, 01:50 AM   #17
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
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OK, we all know (mostly) that a speaker is not a musical instrument. That said, musical instruments are resonant because the wood is worked very thin and allowed to vibrate as much as possible. MDF will work for a guitar just fine if sufficiently thin. In fact, Martin made an MDF model for a while. Might not sound that great, but it does work. A speaker cabinet is never .09" thick.

My point is MDF is not 'non-resonant'. Sure, the DF is a bit higher than solid woods for the most part, but then again real wood usually has a higher young's modulus. Going slightly thicker with solid wood and adding some damping gook will work well enough in the real world. Some lumber has both decent DF and high modulus. Rock maple comes to mind. These are just materials. Address and design around their properties rationally and it will work out.

The real problem with solid wood is cracking and shrinkage/expansion with humidity changes.

I guess I sort of already answered this.
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Old 28th March 2005, 02:14 AM   #18
TC is offline TC  United States
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GreGb is right. Man, it's like wooden aliens visit audiophiles homes and install sawdust nigtmares.

Hardwood? What hardwood? What grain, quartered, vertical sawn, flitch cut flat grain what? It's all different.

MDF? Rangerboard? Common Home Depot consumer closet shelf board?

Resonance patterns are totally dependant upon sizes of panels, joinery and structures. I'd take a softwood speaker made by a craftsman vs a composite speaker made by a common woodbiter any ole day.

Joinery, overall design, panel size and grain direction have to be addressed to fully evaluate materiials. Then on to moisture ccontent and wights and stiffness. Anyone check their mdf's moisture content? Who knows hown much difference mdf's ridgidity changes per % of moisture change?

Take GM's solid souther pine 1354a project. 50 year old barn board that had endured time and stabilized, densified. Probably the stiffness to weight of aluminum (with the grain). Of course that will sound fine. A dense softwood better than MDF? By a mile if you ask me.

Absorbing resonance, and redirecting it, by ridgid reflection need to be better understood. Throwing mdf and energy absorption at the problem is ignoring the problem.

The right material to build speakers out of is the one you understand and are able to manipulate best.

TC
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Old 28th March 2005, 02:38 AM   #19
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TC,

I'm not a craftsman, but this is pretty simple and I have a table saw, planer and router. I've had the wood for about 6 months in a dry area. With a maximum interior dimension of approx 22"x7.5" it should be fine. The wood has really beautiful grain, so I guess it's half sawn, which isn't optimal, but I'll take the risk. Joinery will be just butt joints, but with a planer to make all edges perfect, I should be fine.

Thanks for the encouragement. Good wood is about the same price as good plywood down here, so I scoop up pretty stuff directly at the mill when I have a chance. Then I let it dry through at least one dry season and wet season to get it stabilized before use. No cracks in anything yet (fingers crossed).

John
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Old 28th March 2005, 03:12 AM   #20
TC is offline TC  United States
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I've had the wood for about 6 months in a dry area.
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The wood has really beautiful grain, so I guess it's half sawn, which isn't optimal, but I'll take the risk. Joinery will be just butt joints, but with a planer to make all edges perfect, I should be fine.
Quote:
so I scoop up pretty stuff directly at the mill when I have a chance. Then I let it dry through at least one dry season and wet season to get it stabilized before use. No cracks in anything yet (fingers crossed).
John, the above demonstrates sensitivity to the material on a craftsmans level. Patience is where it all starts and usually ends. I'd say you are doing great.

TC
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