Re: backing up to the ribs
There is just a hint that they maybe exist under the dustcap... these would be akin to the ridges in the cone on the Fostex ESigma drivers. Those 5" & some 8" drivers with similar ridges are pretty special sounding.
Geez, it's nice to have such a wealth of information and experience at hand as I dip my big toe in the FR pond!
Been listening to them and their bigger brethern for nigh on a year now -- no temptation at all (we have a Friday afternoon coffee klatch at Sound Hounds every week -- BTW it was Don, Terry, & myself that "launched" Sound Hounds in the latter half of the '70s)
dave
DRCope said:
There is just a hint that they maybe exist under the dustcap... these would be akin to the ridges in the cone on the Fostex ESigma drivers. Those 5" & some 8" drivers with similar ridges are pretty special sounding.
Geez, it's nice to have such a wealth of information and experience at hand as I dip my big toe in the FR pond!
Been listening to them and their bigger brethern for nigh on a year now -- no temptation at all (we have a Friday afternoon coffee klatch at Sound Hounds every week -- BTW it was Don, Terry, & myself that "launched" Sound Hounds in the latter half of the '70s)
dave
Re: Re: backing up to the ribs
Nothing particularly exotic about the cabinet construction, or that matter the fairly normal looking SAES drivers (untreated paper cone mid/soft dome tweeter) and handmade XO.
As Dave said, we've had occassion to hear various combos of almost every AN (single box) speaker models, including silver wired specials etc, on comple AN systems ranging to over $120,00
Wonderful sound yes, "spoil" me for my own system, I don't think so. At the high end the pricing is (let's be charitable) - more than I would consider spending, regardless of my financial situation.
FWIW, I've been a customer, and regular of the Friday afternoon &"smoky" evening /afterhours club there for most of the past 30 years myself. If I've learned only one thing from the experience, it's that I have to trust my own ears, and not have to justify my opinions to anyone.
planet10 said:
Nothing particularly exotic about the cabinet construction, or that matter the fairly normal looking SAES drivers (untreated paper cone mid/soft dome tweeter) and handmade XO.
As Dave said, we've had occassion to hear various combos of almost every AN (single box) speaker models, including silver wired specials etc, on comple AN systems ranging to over $120,00
Wonderful sound yes, "spoil" me for my own system, I don't think so. At the high end the pricing is (let's be charitable) - more than I would consider spending, regardless of my financial situation.
FWIW, I've been a customer, and regular of the Friday afternoon &"smoky" evening /afterhours club there for most of the past 30 years myself. If I've learned only one thing from the experience, it's that I have to trust my own ears, and not have to justify my opinions to anyone.
What?
I may be wrong, but you seem rather upset and I have no idea why.
Perhaps I should have included a little smiley face after the "spoil" remark. By and large it was supposed to be humorous - tonue in cheek. On the other hand, I chucked a perfectly good job to do what I do now because I capped a used AN system with a pair of E's. Stood my life on its ear.
I'm setting in to build a set of FR speakers, so obviously I think it's worth doing.
Nobody asked you to justify anything.
I may be wrong, but you seem rather upset and I have no idea why.
Perhaps I should have included a little smiley face after the "spoil" remark. By and large it was supposed to be humorous - tonue in cheek. On the other hand, I chucked a perfectly good job to do what I do now because I capped a used AN system with a pair of E's. Stood my life on its ear.
I'm setting in to build a set of FR speakers, so obviously I think it's worth doing.
Nobody asked you to justify anything.
mea culpa
That does read a little pissy doesn't it?
All I was trying to say is that I've heard good DIY or "sub-cultre" systems ( Bottlehead, Decware, Cain & Cain , Horneshoppe Horns, Omega, several DIY amps & speakers) that achieve 95% of the musical smiles, which cost less than one of the sales taxes (7%) on the interconnects and speaker wires in the dealer's "salon" demo rig.
Regardless of the nameplate on the gear, I just find that kind of pricing , if not obscene, at least not excusable.
Rant off
That does read a little pissy doesn't it?
All I was trying to say is that I've heard good DIY or "sub-cultre" systems ( Bottlehead, Decware, Cain & Cain , Horneshoppe Horns, Omega, several DIY amps & speakers) that achieve 95% of the musical smiles, which cost less than one of the sales taxes (7%) on the interconnects and speaker wires in the dealer's "salon" demo rig.
Regardless of the nameplate on the gear, I just find that kind of pricing , if not obscene, at least not excusable.
Rant off
idiot question on fuzzmeasure
Dave - I've downloaded the fuzzmeasure, and there's much esoteric discussion about it, but what I can't find is an explanation as to how it actually gets USED! How do I get the test signal out to the system - surely not through the headphone jack! What should I use for a mic, and how does it get back into the Mac? The notion that no additional hardware is required, but I don't see how that's possible. . . .
Help!
Dave - I've downloaded the fuzzmeasure, and there's much esoteric discussion about it, but what I can't find is an explanation as to how it actually gets USED! How do I get the test signal out to the system - surely not through the headphone jack! What should I use for a mic, and how does it get back into the Mac? The notion that no additional hardware is required, but I don't see how that's possible. . . .
Help!
Re: idiot question on fuzzmeasure
What Mac do you have? By no additional hardware i think Chris really means "no additional computer hardware". If your Mac has a mic input you can at least use the Apple PlainTalk mic (ie on my old PowerBook i used this with mac-the-scope). But my G4 only has a line-level input so i need a mic pre... the Griffin iMic is an option, a more serious mic pre can be bought from a number of vendors, BrianGT & Vikash are putting together a mic pre group buy (boards at least) based on the Neal/Wallin design (my V1 board from Neal attached -- assembled, not tested).
To do impedance you need a jig... a simple jig requires a 1k R, a stereo miniPhone cable, and a calibration R (ideally a similar R to what you are measuring (ie typically 8 ohms).
dave
DRCope said:
What Mac do you have? By no additional hardware i think Chris really means "no additional computer hardware". If your Mac has a mic input you can at least use the Apple PlainTalk mic (ie on my old PowerBook i used this with mac-the-scope). But my G4 only has a line-level input so i need a mic pre... the Griffin iMic is an option, a more serious mic pre can be bought from a number of vendors, BrianGT & Vikash are putting together a mic pre group buy (boards at least) based on the Neal/Wallin design (my V1 board from Neal attached -- assembled, not tested).
To do impedance you need a jig... a simple jig requires a 1k R, a stereo miniPhone cable, and a calibration R (ideally a similar R to what you are measuring (ie typically 8 ohms).
dave
Attachments
I built up a more elaborate jig... a DUT connection (with wire & alligator clips), a pluggable space for the nominal 1K R, RCA I/O,. the calibration R mounted in an easy to get to place (installed after these pics -- also doubles as an alligator clip dock), all mounted in an old Apple 400k floppy disk drive enclosure.
I plan an even more elaborate one with a switch and additional miniPhone jack so i can hook my 'puter speakers to the jig and switch between them and the jig.
dave
I plan an even more elaborate one with a switch and additional miniPhone jack so i can hook my 'puter speakers to the jig and switch between them and the jig.
dave
Attachments
Interesting. The whole thing looks really cool and useful.
However, I have a Titanium Power Book which has no audio input and only headphone jack out, so I suspect I'll have to add a USB sound card and mic. No huge deal I guess, but not an area I know anything about. Guess I'm gonna find out now though!
Thanks!
Dave C.
However, I have a Titanium Power Book which has no audio input and only headphone jack out, so I suspect I'll have to add a USB sound card and mic. No huge deal I guess, but not an area I know anything about. Guess I'm gonna find out now though!
Thanks!
Dave C.
Hi Dave,
Sorry the webpage for FuzzMeasure didn't help you out as much as it should have. I'm planning to put up a really detailed page on what you'll need for certain measurements once 1.2 is almost done. I've been working so much on adding features to 1.2 that I've had nearly no time to actually put some helpful pages like this up.
If you're looking to pick up a USB sound device, first make sure that you figure out how serious you want to get with FuzzMeasure. Also, determine if you want to concentrate more on acoustical measurements, or electrical measurements (although I'm sure the majority just wants to do both).
If money is no object, try to seek out a device called the USBPre. It's really spendy. You can probably get great results out of the Edirol UA-25, and it includes a microphone preamp as well.
Whatever you do -- don't buy an iMic for measurements. I will be posting something on my main weblog page in the next day or so about why it sucks pretty badly.
If I had the cash, I'd buy a handful of USB audio devices and run tests on them. Unfortunately I only have 3 at my disposal, so I will be sure to post every last dirty detail I can get out of all the devices I have here.
I hope that getting up and running for measurements isn't too painful for you. I have a lot of work to do in order to get the state of affairs with MLS software on the Mac sorted out!
Cheers,
Chris
DRCope said:
Sorry the webpage for FuzzMeasure didn't help you out as much as it should have. I'm planning to put up a really detailed page on what you'll need for certain measurements once 1.2 is almost done. I've been working so much on adding features to 1.2 that I've had nearly no time to actually put some helpful pages like this up.
If you're looking to pick up a USB sound device, first make sure that you figure out how serious you want to get with FuzzMeasure. Also, determine if you want to concentrate more on acoustical measurements, or electrical measurements (although I'm sure the majority just wants to do both).
If money is no object, try to seek out a device called the USBPre. It's really spendy. You can probably get great results out of the Edirol UA-25, and it includes a microphone preamp as well.
Whatever you do -- don't buy an iMic for measurements. I will be posting something on my main weblog page in the next day or so about why it sucks pretty badly.
If I had the cash, I'd buy a handful of USB audio devices and run tests on them. Unfortunately I only have 3 at my disposal, so I will be sure to post every last dirty detail I can get out of all the devices I have here.
I hope that getting up and running for measurements isn't too painful for you. I have a lot of work to do in order to get the state of affairs with MLS software on the Mac sorted out!
Cheers,
Chris
No Worries
It won't be painful, and I'm thrilled that such a tool is available for OSX ! I'm just getting acclimated in a new area.
I'll be using it on Audio Note speakers, DIY projects, as well as taking it to the Great Plains Audio Fest in Tulsa, OK April 29-May1, and offering its services at a New England Bottlehead/Valve Club meeting later in May. It'll be interesting to see what kind of results I get!
It won't be painful, and I'm thrilled that such a tool is available for OSX ! I'm just getting acclimated in a new area.
I'll be using it on Audio Note speakers, DIY projects, as well as taking it to the Great Plains Audio Fest in Tulsa, OK April 29-May1, and offering its services at a New England Bottlehead/Valve Club meeting later in May. It'll be interesting to see what kind of results I get!
A Fine Can O' Worms!
So I start looking into the various USB mike preamps and realize fairly soon that with one more mic than I would need for measuring, I could record my church choir and who knows what all, which of course escalates the quality of the mic I "need". Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.
I fear another hobby (live digital recording) has just snuck up on me!
So I start looking into the various USB mike preamps and realize fairly soon that with one more mic than I would need for measuring, I could record my church choir and who knows what all, which of course escalates the quality of the mic I "need". Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.
I fear another hobby (live digital recording) has just snuck up on me!
Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . . .
Here it is only two months later and I'm baaaaacck. Since the last installment, I've taken up digital recording, (Presonus Firebox mic-pre,A/D, Firewire), Groove Tubes GT55 large condensor mikes, CuBase LE. I've recorded a couple choir concerts, and it now occurs to me that I haven't done the FuzzMeasure thing. Duh.
Meanwhile, the 103A's do appear to be identical or nearly so to the Panasonics Dave shows a way back upstream. They do have the ribs, too.
I FINALLY put them in pair of (borrowed) Fostex back horns (with the stair step effect in the mouth and on the face). They previously had a pair of Fostex 103E's in them, which sounded okay, but a looong way from great. The Pana103A's sound FAAARRR better, although still not great. Mind you, I don't have phase plugs or damping done, and the internal wiring is magnet wire. Since I have it on hand, the magnet wire is coming out in favor of 1 leg Audio Note SPe, one SPx per speaker.
The damping is a no-brainer, I just have to do it. I'm reluctant to peel the dust caps off to measure for Dave's phase plugs, however.
Oh yeah, I dismembered a pair of Soliloquy speaker stands to get the adjustable spike platform. The space between spikes allows a half inch on either side of the cabinets. Looks like it was made for it, and man, it is STABLE. I've never understood skinny cabinets wobbling around on carpet. Just can't be helpin' matters . . . .
Oh yeah - almost forgot - the amp I'm using is the Yamamoto A08 - 717A (little mushroom) pentode driver into 45 power tubes, 5U4 rectifier. 2 wacking big watts. Sounds flippin' incredible. Check out the review on 6moons, or at Venus HiFi, the U.S. importer.
Disclosure: Brian B at Venus Hifi is an Audio Note dealer and a friend of mine, but that has nothing to do with my mentioning this amp. It's superb, and a huge bargain.
Here it is only two months later and I'm baaaaacck. Since the last installment, I've taken up digital recording, (Presonus Firebox mic-pre,A/D, Firewire), Groove Tubes GT55 large condensor mikes, CuBase LE. I've recorded a couple choir concerts, and it now occurs to me that I haven't done the FuzzMeasure thing. Duh.
Meanwhile, the 103A's do appear to be identical or nearly so to the Panasonics Dave shows a way back upstream. They do have the ribs, too.
I FINALLY put them in pair of (borrowed) Fostex back horns (with the stair step effect in the mouth and on the face). They previously had a pair of Fostex 103E's in them, which sounded okay, but a looong way from great. The Pana103A's sound FAAARRR better, although still not great. Mind you, I don't have phase plugs or damping done, and the internal wiring is magnet wire. Since I have it on hand, the magnet wire is coming out in favor of 1 leg Audio Note SPe, one SPx per speaker.
The damping is a no-brainer, I just have to do it. I'm reluctant to peel the dust caps off to measure for Dave's phase plugs, however.
Oh yeah, I dismembered a pair of Soliloquy speaker stands to get the adjustable spike platform. The space between spikes allows a half inch on either side of the cabinets. Looks like it was made for it, and man, it is STABLE. I've never understood skinny cabinets wobbling around on carpet. Just can't be helpin' matters . . . .
Oh yeah - almost forgot - the amp I'm using is the Yamamoto A08 - 717A (little mushroom) pentode driver into 45 power tubes, 5U4 rectifier. 2 wacking big watts. Sounds flippin' incredible. Check out the review on 6moons, or at Venus HiFi, the U.S. importer.
Disclosure: Brian B at Venus Hifi is an Audio Note dealer and a friend of mine, but that has nothing to do with my mentioning this amp. It's superb, and a huge bargain.
Re: Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . . .
I've since seen these with an Everlite brand name & had correspondence with a Japanese gentlemen eho bought some new, and says they are made by Atomix (they supposedly were one of the smaller OEMs building a lot of the drivers for Sansui -- which i've previously attributed to Coral or Panasonic)
dave
I've since seen these with an Everlite brand name & had correspondence with a Japanese gentlemen eho bought some new, and says they are made by Atomix (they supposedly were one of the smaller OEMs building a lot of the drivers for Sansui -- which i've previously attributed to Coral or Panasonic)
dave
Valeriano said:
Can you post a pic of the front. Radial ribs (usually just sticking out from a black dustcap) will confirm that this is a set of the rare Atomix driver. If it is not suffering from SSS (stiff surround syndrome) you have a set of some of the very best exemplars of the 103a genre (along with the holey basket Coral). Yours does have ceramic magnet which i haven't seen and may knock them back a notch in desireability.
dave
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