Small single driver speaker suggestion (and power rating question)

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Hi, I'd like to consider the option of building small(3"-4") single driver speakers to be used for HT and music as fronts and rears with a subwoofer - i.e. something that will go down to 80hz easily and mate with a subwoofer gracefully. Can anyone suggest some good options ?

I was just browsing some full range drivers(fostex) and noticed that all the 3"-4" driver's power rating was very less (5W-15W). Is it ok to use such low power rating in a HT setup ? Is this typical of full range drivers of this size ? I dont turn it up too high but still a 5W rating seems low.

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If you want to cross a 3-4" driver at 80hz you are going to limit your options a lot. Most of the 3" drivers I'm familiar with really want a crossover closer to 150hz. I ran TB871s crossed at 100hz via receiver and they were limited in terms of power handling. If your receiver can cross higher I would recommend trying the HiVi 3" mini speaker John Krutke is making. If not, the only option that I know of with sufficient power handling is the CSS WR125, if you made a sealed box for it it would have an f3 around 80-90hz which would work well with the 80hz crossover in your receiver.
 
I built an HT system around the Fostex FE167 using a small MLTL for the surrounds and center channel and Bob Briens FT1600 for the mains. The surrounds model flat to an F3 of about 60 HZ. I could have used these all around but I had already built the FT1600s. All the speakers are crossed over to the sub at 80 Hz using the HT receiver. This system is very nice and musical with more than enough power handling capability for my needs. Check out the following link for a pic. of the surrounds.

Good luck.


http://image10.webshots.com/10/7/61/8/148576108NIepyl_fs.jpg
 
Badwater,
The link is not working. Anyway, what is the size of the enclosure you have used with the FE167 ?

I did some searching on the forum and found the reference speaker thread. A FE127E in the monopole cabinet is pretty close to what I am looking for!

In fact, to keep things simple and quick, how about a FE127E in a 8-9lt (0.25 cu ft) enclosure that PE sells - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=302-704&DID=7

Will that work ? Any thoughts anyone ?
 
I'm using the TangBand W4-1052sa , which has an fs of 63hz, 3.4mm of Xmax, and a 40 watt Pmax. MarkMck has a couple of excellent mods and filters designed for this driver which smooth it out considerably and extend the high end to around 17k.

I've designed my project for 10 watts max power handling, but with a sealed box or a higher crossover frequency in a vented box, you might get 20-30 watts into it at 80hz without exceeding xmax.

A bit more on my project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50664
 
thanks for the link Percy. I had a look, but don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for there... there's no mention of maximum SPL levels, on the other hand there are repeated caveats about anything other than 'intimate' music.

Personally when I think HT speakers I think of robust, dynamic speakers that can handle big transients and explosion type effects wtihout strain. Most of all, I think of not wanting to worry about bottoming them out or frying them on unexpected peaks. When I was using the TB871s I was always worried about this, even though they are pretty cheap to replace.

FWIW, I have the CSS WR125 (a driver with similar Sd and about 17 times the linear exursion of the fe127) vented as a center channel, and even with the receiver's filter at 100hz I could probably push it into distortion if I had a large room or tried to get really high levels on a dynamic movie like Master and Commander.
 
I can't seem to get the link to work.

The cabinets are 22: High x 10.25" wide x 6.5" deep. Port is 3" diameter x 4" long. Driver is located 1/2 way down. Models real nice using MJK's mathcad worksheets for a MLTL. The F3 is about 60hz.

I haven't done a critcal comparison between the small MLTL and Bob's FT1600, but feel that they are comparable. The major difference is that the small MLTL doesn't go as ddep, which isn't an issue in the HT system. Overall I am very happy with both systems.


http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=148574896&photoID=148576108&security=NIepyl
 
Small Driver SPL Capability

Morbo,

Tony Gee states that you should not expect much bass or high SPLs from his design that was referenced by Percy. Frankly, using any of the small Fostex drivers with 0.35 mm Xmax in a bass reflex or even a sealed box is certainly not where these small drivers are comfortable. They will need a back horn or such to do anything basswise. Otherwise the the Fostex drivers should be used as midrange drivers in a sealed or BR box. Percy would be unhappy with their performance in his proposed application and box size.

Except for Percy's low budget the CSS WR125S would be ideal if the roll off at 15 kHz or so was acceptable. The Jordan JX92S would be perfect except for its $150 each cost. Either of these drivers would do in the 50's Hz F3 point in a 7 liter box and delivery adequate SPLs. The JX92S would be perfect as it does everything that he said that he wanted and can cover the entire frequency band.

Jim
 
If you have a smallish budget, but are looking for something that can handle higher SPLs I would go with something like the Tang-Band W4-656SB in a small sealed enclosure. In an enclosure of 1.6L you should be fine up to around 97dB, at which point you'll start to push them past their x-max. This won't go all the way to 80Hz. It will have an -6dB around 100Hz. Still I would rather have good clean sound with a dip between 80Hz and 100Hz, than be constantly pushing the drivers past their x-max. My friend asked me to help him with a budget home theater set-up for cheap, this seemed to be the best. It's not built yet, but I've got high hopes for him.
Certainly the Jordans or the CSS WR125S would be better, but you can have five channels of the Tang-Band for less than the price of a single Jordan or two CSS WR125S.
Joe
 
morbo said:
thanks for the link Percy. I had a look, but don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for there


Well I just wanted to indicate that the speaker is said to have an F3 of 85hz and it is small in size.
Speaking of which, what is the F3 of the monopole speaker ? - the diyaudio reference project thread started by GG.

The main reason I wanted to explore fullrange speakers was to reduce cost and space as compared to - say a 2-way bookshelf. So far, it appears to be highly unlikely.

What about the FW137 - a 5.5" driver ? Keep in mind though that I am not looking for deep thumping bass or anything. Thats what the subwoofer will do. I just need it to go upto 80hz with reasonable response.

So now how do the makers of commercial HT sets manage to build such small satellite speakers ? They must be crossing over to the subwoofer much higher than 80-90hz, I guess ?

<edit>
Joe, I will check out your suggestion. and also rethink about the WR125S.
 
Yeah it's a slight compromise, but I think that dips in the frequency are much less noticable than peaks. Speaker building is filled with compromises, especially when a budget and size limitation are included.
Unless you can remove the lower frequency out of the signal for you "satellite" speakers (some HT amps have this option) I would stick with a sealed design, which will have a higher power handling than an exquivalent size ported box, and since you have a sub you don't need the extra bass extension that the ported designs can give you. If you go for the Tang-Band I would certainly check this out as well.http://madspeaker.com/Projects/656Sgluemod.htm
Joe
 
Hi Percy- Sorry if I've missed or misread your criteria. Cheap, small, loud and clear, right?

The CSS WR125 is small, loud and clear...and goes low... a very nice monitor.

The FE127E TL single driver is small(ish), cheap and clear (very detailed is more apt), but I wouldn't push it loud or too low. BUT... the Bipole TL does get loud and low. Head and shoulders above the WR125 alone at about the same price.

But the questions remain, how small do you want, how many speakers are you building and what's your budget?

At the moment, I seem to be the only one who's built the three speakers noted above, and I'm really just waiting for others to chime in with their impressions before posting again in the "reference" thread, but if I were thinking a 5.1 system, I'd build the bipoles for fronts and the single FE127 for center and surrounds. My experience says you'll get the best, snappy, gut-punching, bang for your buck. Their overall sounds are quite different however. Wouldn't it be nice to hear them both?

If you want, buy both a pair of 125's and four 127's (for the bipoles) and I'll buy whichever ones you don't want to keep. How's that?

Edit: Actually, with the 127E's, you won't need a center.
 
What kind of enclosure size are we looking at for a WR125S to achieve that kind of F3 ? Can you direct me to some designs ?

Just went over to TB's website and in the fullrange section there a bunch of 4" drivers. but I dont see the 817,656,1052 so I assume they are older models and these are the newer ones ?? Anybody tried any of these ?
W4-616S
W4-654S
W4-655SA
W4-657SC
W4-927SA
W4-930SA
W4-937SA
W4-1129
 
The 656 is a new driver and I couldn't tell you why they don't have it on the tang-band website. Parts express carries it:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-820

If I read the specs right for the WR125S it will need a fairly large box if you want to go sealed ~1cubic foot. That seems really big to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Fairly high Q though so that could be correct. Either way that would get an F3 of around 70Hz.
 
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