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Old 15th March 2005, 03:26 PM   #61
percy is offline percy  United States
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actually its music. I would mostly listen to music.

Quote:
at the very least bring the sub in so low that you can't tell it's playing.
Like 60Hz or even lower ?

When I was describing the differences, I was not considering bass or intensity(spl) at all. Its just a more open, complete sound. Sound that doesnt appear muffled or suffocated.

It pieces together as to why the most common driver size for a 2-way is 6.5". Its the smallest driver that can take it up into the type of sound that I am talking about and yet be crossed over low enough typically where most tweeters are comfortable (2-2.5Khz).

Using a good 6" or larger size fullrange driver with a tweeter is definitely an option at this point.

Would it be safe to assume that a driver designed for fullrange duty would surely have a better midrange performance than a driver designed for a two/multi way system and meant to be crossed over to a tweeter from delivering the mid-high to high end. I could build a 2-way using decent a full range driver.
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Old 15th March 2005, 04:05 PM   #62
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Would it be safe to assume that a driver designed for fullrange duty would surely have a better midrange performance than a driver designed for a two/multi way system and meant to be crossed over to a tweeter from delivering the mid-high to high end. I could build a 2-way using decent a full range driver.
Generally speaking that is true and many people do that but it usually ends up in a larger cabinet in order to get reasonable bass response (horns, TLines). This is why two-way mid-woof/tweet systems get used; so the main driver can be used to cover the bottom octaves up to the tweeter XO point without sacrificing bass in a smaller box. In most cases I agree with using a driver that can cover from the upper bass to the upper mids without an XO, however, I have heard (am listening to currently) high quality mid-woofs that cross at about 3500Hz to a tweet that sound very natural and have good detail. Perhaps a more ideal system would be a three-way using a full range driver as the mid so the bottom could be handled by a subwoofer and a super tweeter used for the extreme highs. Sound familiar anyone? Once again we are talking about a large box.
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Old 15th March 2005, 07:12 PM   #63
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Percy,

I haven't read all the posts relating to your question, but I'm working on a project right now that may help shed some light. Parts Express (parts-express.com) sells Dayton 5" full range PA drivers (catalog # 295-010, page 160) for $11.80 each in quantities of 4 and up. They're "50 watts RMS/100 watts max" with a response of 90-15,000.

I'm putting together a small PA system by stacking several of these drivers. Like the Bose designs, some electrical equalization (graphic, parametric, or even just shelving equalizers with the proper frequencies dialed in) can work wonders in both the bass and treble regions. Several drivers together can act like a woofer (you can take the low end well below the 90Hz region with low end eq), and yet the drivers are small enough to take the top end up as high as you like well beyond the 15,000 Hz (with some high end eq). And of course your midrange remains awesome. If you're judicious with your equalization, you can avoid annoying crossovers entirely! By the way, stacking the speakers vertically gives you nice horizontal dispersion. And sealing the boxes (acoustic suspension) gives you a nice tight bass, though it requires a bit more power to drive. (Have also considered a transmission line cabinet instead of the acoustic suspension, but not sure about that yet. I did try building a transmission line cabinet about 30 years ago with only one 5" driver in it, and the low end was pretty amazing.)

I did a crude test the other day with four Auratone cubes stacked (each "cube" has a 4-1/2" driver) with some rough low end eq - managed to shake the windows and bring down a light airplane with a bass guitar. (Ok, so I'm exaggerating about the airplane.) I had originally considered a woofer or subwoofer and doing a crossover for that, but now I'm thinking I won't need it, given these recent test results.

I'm only now ordering my speakers, but once I have the eq figured out, I'll be glad to share the results, if you like. Good luck.

Scott Morrison
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Old 15th March 2005, 09:44 PM   #64
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Originally posted by Timn8ter
Sound familiar anyone?
Huh, you talking to me

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Old 15th March 2005, 09:59 PM   #65
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Maybe


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Old 16th March 2005, 04:27 AM   #66
navin is offline navin  India
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timn8ter
In most cases I agree with using a driver that can cover from the upper bass to the upper mids without an XO, however, I have heard (am listening to currently) high quality mid-woofs that cross at about 3500Hz to a tweet that sound very natural and have good detail. Perhaps a more ideal system would be a three-way using a full range driver as the mid so the bottom could be handled by a subwoofer and a super tweeter used for the extreme highs. Sound familiar anyone? Once again we are talking about a large box.
1. which mid-woof are you listening to? how big a box do they need? How low do they go?

2. the 3 way would really be a "2 way with a sub" if you are expecting the mid-woof to cover approx 60Hz-6000Hz (i'd be happy with 100Hz-4000Hz @ 95db/3m ) with a sub below and a "sweeter" above. fullranges that can meet this are now not uncommon but i'd love to hear your recomendations.

BTW I really like that system you have above. However other than the Heil AMT on top I dont recognise the other drivers. Can you shed some light?

I have looked a quite a few fullrange and wide range drivers and find most of them have one severe limitation or another. Some like the Lowther require horn loaded cabs (hardly satifying WAF), others like the Manger reuire a sub-mid as they really are only compfrtable above 400Hz, others like the Audax HT080 and Seas H393 are not easily available and have ragged or limited HF responses. Fostex's 4-5" drivers and Jordan's JX92S seem to be the best bet for now.
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Old 16th March 2005, 07:49 AM   #67
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Originally posted by navin
BTW I really like that system you have above. However other than the Heil AMT on top I dont recognise the other drivers. Can you shed some light?
A stretched AMT-1, original (alnico, cast basket) woofer, Eminence 6" mid, original tweeter, custom XO...

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Old 16th March 2005, 12:53 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by navin


1. which mid-woof are you listening to? how big a box do they need? How low do they go?

2. the 3 way would really be a "2 way with a sub" if you are expecting the mid-woof to cover approx 60Hz-6000Hz (i'd be happy with 100Hz-4000Hz @ 95db/3m ) with a sub below and a "sweeter" above. fullranges that can meet this are now not uncommon but i'd love to hear your recomendations.

Fostex's 4-5" drivers and Jordan's JX92S seem to be the best bet for now.
I was referring to the Adire Extremis 6.8 in ~20liter box with a Morel MDT-30 tweeter. I measured -3db@36Hz. As an aside, I've also used the CSS WR125S in a 7 liter box with a Fostex tweeter that I measured at -3db@60Hz.

I was just "thinking out loud" so I don't have a true concept but I would probably start by looking at the Fostex for higher efficiency but were I less concerned about power I would look at the Jordan or WR125S.
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Old 17th March 2005, 06:04 AM   #69
navin is offline navin  India
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if you are looking at a 2 way then why not something like wha john K has (Seas)?
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