I was wondering if anyone has seen the speaker? Being though, some of the forums speak highly of and have been influenced by the gaincard/flatfish dac and the concept in general, if anyone has any ideas as to what drivers are used (9" full range, crossed over at 20K/6db to a ribbon driver in a reflex box) It can be seen at the site. I marvel at the price: $12K!!!
The Oris system for me, is looking much, MUCH better as a buy. For that matter, would ANYONE have a clue as to how the Mayahorn, is constructed? Can't get plans or the box from Welborne or otherwise...
Many thanks,
al r.
The Oris system for me, is looking much, MUCH better as a buy. For that matter, would ANYONE have a clue as to how the Mayahorn, is constructed? Can't get plans or the box from Welborne or otherwise...
Many thanks,
al r.
Try this for starters: http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ces05/ces_8.html
Might be better ones out there, but nothing on the 47 Labs site yet.
Might be better ones out there, but nothing on the 47 Labs site yet.
Konnichiwa,
Not on these shores.
The drivers looks not like anything I have noticed conciously before, but I think you will find a suitably similar black cone one somewhere, which comes close enough in general performance.
The Box appears more like an apperiodic design from the looks than BR, suggesting a high(ish) Q driver, I'd look in 8" Polycone Ceiling Drivers.
Ribbon, looks kinda like Aurum Cantus, may be another company, there are many around nowadays and I think design and performance are largely identical, but note the waveguide before the ribbon.
Looks to me like a standard 18" Folded bass Horn from PA designs. There are a few variations on the same general theme, this one may be from the Fane Booklet, not certain, plans float around the web.
Sayonara
al r. said:
Not on these shores.
al r. said:
The drivers looks not like anything I have noticed conciously before, but I think you will find a suitably similar black cone one somewhere, which comes close enough in general performance.
The Box appears more like an apperiodic design from the looks than BR, suggesting a high(ish) Q driver, I'd look in 8" Polycone Ceiling Drivers.
Ribbon, looks kinda like Aurum Cantus, may be another company, there are many around nowadays and I think design and performance are largely identical, but note the waveguide before the ribbon.
al r. said:
Looks to me like a standard 18" Folded bass Horn from PA designs. There are a few variations on the same general theme, this one may be from the Fane Booklet, not certain, plans float around the web.
Sayonara
Looks like an white epoxy treated ciare ph250 (with perhaps some modification to the whizzer cone)
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/PH250.pdf
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Progetti/MyPersonalSpeaker/H07.pdf
Worth 12k? (- considering what the ciare costs)
Only if you have serious money to burn..
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/PH250.pdf
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Progetti/MyPersonalSpeaker/H07.pdf
Worth 12k? (- considering what the ciare costs)
Only if you have serious money to burn..
It does look a little like the hartley's, perhaps on purpose?
The tell-tale features of the cone indicating that it is the ciare are:
1. cone diameter (a 9 inch cone is typically derived from a 10 inch driver)
2. 1st order crossover at 20kHz (which coincides with the freq. response of the ciare nicely)
3. Looking closely at the driver pic where the maker is resting his palm on the speaker. You should be able to notice dark "rings" on the diapharam's surface - indentation rings that the ciare has and would presumably "show-up" with a white polymer coating.
As for the whizzer cone it appears to be reduced in size (diameter) and given a surround that is glued to the main cone surface.
The "wave guide" I believe has little to do with actually wanting a wave guide . Instead it is more about the baffle and how the woofer is mounted to the cabinet. In this instance I believe the baffle has bolts extending rearward on the back of the baffle and the driver is mounted on to these bolts with nuts. In otherwords the driver is mounted to the front baffle from the rear of the baffle. To reduce diffraction effects the "wave guide" is added to the baffle.
Note that mounting the driver like this also helps to hide its origin..
The tell-tale features of the cone indicating that it is the ciare are:
1. cone diameter (a 9 inch cone is typically derived from a 10 inch driver)
2. 1st order crossover at 20kHz (which coincides with the freq. response of the ciare nicely)
3. Looking closely at the driver pic where the maker is resting his palm on the speaker. You should be able to notice dark "rings" on the diapharam's surface - indentation rings that the ciare has and would presumably "show-up" with a white polymer coating.
As for the whizzer cone it appears to be reduced in size (diameter) and given a surround that is glued to the main cone surface.
The "wave guide" I believe has little to do with actually wanting a wave guide . Instead it is more about the baffle and how the woofer is mounted to the cabinet. In this instance I believe the baffle has bolts extending rearward on the back of the baffle and the driver is mounted on to these bolts with nuts. In otherwords the driver is mounted to the front baffle from the rear of the baffle. To reduce diffraction effects the "wave guide" is added to the baffle.
Note that mounting the driver like this also helps to hide its origin..
Would be fun to compare the Ciare with the cheapo Pioneer with whizzer. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-045
Who sells the ciare in the US? or anywhere? got a link?
Who sells the ciare in the US? or anywhere? got a link?
Variac said:
Though these "cheap" drivers are not listed, I believe these people are the distributors for North America:
http://www.assistanceaudio.com/08_Ciare.html
The high "q" CH250 was "raved about" either here or on another forum in an open baffle configuration (dude replaced his expensive lowther's for them).
http://translate.google.com/transla...tml&prev=/search?q=ciare+ch250&hl=en&lr=&sa=G
Then there are the "commercial" offerings by Fostex that no one ever seems to mention:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/PS-Series-for-Business-U.shtml
So there are quite a few drivers for a "shoot-out" waiting to happen (not just the pioneer). I'd think this would be a good DIY club event or competition.
then one could look here at the place that sells the ciare and find the listed Monacor full rangers- some at reasonable prices. I think some are suposed to be good
http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
Thanks for the suggestions as to where these speakers could have originated from. I find the costs daunting and unrealistic based on what it looks like may be in them. As things audio goes, my interest has wained in this area and I have since moved on to something seemingly more interesting. The 5th Rethm speaker.
Thanks,
al r.
Thanks,
al r.
Is there then a concensus that the wide ranger in the 47 Hotei is in fact a Ciare 250?
I spoke to the owner of Spectrum Audio in GDR, and he says that the Ciare 250 + M, with an extra magnet, is an outstanding driver, and is apparently catching on with the German single driver DIY types. I am interested in trying this combination.
VAS=52L.
I spoke to the owner of Spectrum Audio in GDR, and he says that the Ciare 250 + M, with an extra magnet, is an outstanding driver, and is apparently catching on with the German single driver DIY types. I am interested in trying this combination.
VAS=52L.
The Ciare driver is 96db
The link of 47 Labs
http://www.sakurasystems.com/news.html
says it is 92db and driver is not filtered.
It doesn't match.
Bartek
The link of 47 Labs
http://www.sakurasystems.com/news.html
says it is 92db and driver is not filtered.
It doesn't match.
Bartek
zygibajt said:
actually it does..
Look back at this ciare link:
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/Progetti/MyPersonalSpeaker/H07.pdf
The box construction isn't all that different from the 47 Labs design (except for a larger box with an aperiodic "port" to lower impeadance at fs).
Looking at it you'll notice that ON-AXIS at 1kHz and below it is pretty much between 92-94db. There is however a substantial "rise" in freq. response as freq.s increase (from the whizer) until about 9.5 kHz. You can remove this rise to one degree or another by (any, OR a combination of):
1. Modifying the whizer.
2. Applying dampening to the whizer and cone.
3. Using a "shelving" circuit (i.e. an "eq"). (and insertion loss will also decrease output.)
4. Taking the measurement off-axis.
Certainly 1 and 2 have been performed, and it is likely that 4 is also utilized. I wouldn't even be surpised if 3 was used - afterall they state that the driver is "filterless" (i.e. no lowpass crossover to the ribbon), NOT that it doesn't have an eq. in series (or parallel) with the driver.
ScottG,
Factors 1&2 are along the lines of what I was thinking. My suspicion was furthered by comparo of the Ciare reco'd box, Vas, or similar Volume, as you point out, and especially a side by side visual comparison, and the fact that there seem to be no other wide rangers of this exact DIA. Except Monacor, I believe. I refuse to believe they would choose a Monacor over Ciare stuff, their 15" coax pro audio unit is out of this world good.
47 Labs likely does not enjoy the economies of scale required to produce a wildly exotic driver concomittant to the asking price, either directly or indirectly..... Of course I could be totally wrong.
Factors 1&2 are along the lines of what I was thinking. My suspicion was furthered by comparo of the Ciare reco'd box, Vas, or similar Volume, as you point out, and especially a side by side visual comparison, and the fact that there seem to be no other wide rangers of this exact DIA. Except Monacor, I believe. I refuse to believe they would choose a Monacor over Ciare stuff, their 15" coax pro audio unit is out of this world good.
47 Labs likely does not enjoy the economies of scale required to produce a wildly exotic driver concomittant to the asking price, either directly or indirectly..... Of course I could be totally wrong.
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