The honorable thing is to acknowledge the originator of the idea, even if you thought of it without any prior knowledge of the first genesis of the same idea.Timn8ter said:
This, I know, is law in:
Business (patents)
The Academy (plagiarism)
Music (copyright)
I don't know if this is law in the visual arts. But PVC pipe enclosures are certainly an intriguing idea that's been done before, at least twice.
Dave
PS--and by "law," I mean, the authorities insist that one pay royalties to and/or publicly acknowledge the work of another from whose work one profits.
In many creative fields, it is typical to say what or who has influenced the work. It could be that his person has no knowledge of previous pipe projects, although, technically, every big horn and even the bass cannons of yore qualify as prior art.
That said, I don't think it is art at all. It may qualify as industrial design, but more than anything, it is merely a non-standard application for off-the-shelf components. The fact that Sampson has called his project Audio Lego implies this also.
ensen.
That said, I don't think it is art at all. It may qualify as industrial design, but more than anything, it is merely a non-standard application for off-the-shelf components. The fact that Sampson has called his project Audio Lego implies this also.
ensen.
Mocked up the first pair last night. Working really fast to finish 2 pairs for separate Xmax gifts, so no pics until maybe next week.
Used 3" holesaw on the endcaps is perfect fit on the drivers. The beauty ring for locating the mounting pilot holes. Wiring just twisted onto terminals (for now). Surface mount the driver and beauty ring with #6-3/4" sheet metal screws. Press fit endcap onto 45deg elbow. Stuff about 3/4 solid with polyester flannel cut from dollar store blanket. Still have to get some 4" pipe cut into 4" lengths to press fit into the other end with another cap, but...
Surprisingly good mids and highs are mostly smooth (but not quite sweet). And this from an old, mostly clean receiver and my cheapo old CD player.
Will still need to figure out the tuning to take out some resonances in the mid-bass, but already better than most mini-system speakers.
All together... a great cheapo project to impress the non-philes.
ensen.
Used 3" holesaw on the endcaps is perfect fit on the drivers. The beauty ring for locating the mounting pilot holes. Wiring just twisted onto terminals (for now). Surface mount the driver and beauty ring with #6-3/4" sheet metal screws. Press fit endcap onto 45deg elbow. Stuff about 3/4 solid with polyester flannel cut from dollar store blanket. Still have to get some 4" pipe cut into 4" lengths to press fit into the other end with another cap, but...
Surprisingly good mids and highs are mostly smooth (but not quite sweet). And this from an old, mostly clean receiver and my cheapo old CD player.
Will still need to figure out the tuning to take out some resonances in the mid-bass, but already better than most mini-system speakers.
All together... a great cheapo project to impress the non-philes.
ensen.
I remember a cover story for Speaker Builder maybe 15 or more years ago for a project called "The Pipes" that looked pretty similar (though more elaborate).
BTW, the markups aren't unreasonable. If you're selling at 5 times the cost of bill of materials, you're going to be moderately profitable, but it's far from gouging.
BTW, the markups aren't unreasonable. If you're selling at 5 times the cost of bill of materials, you're going to be moderately profitable, but it's far from gouging.
Notice there is no associated subwoofer with any of the pipes. I tried (and tried) but couldn't find an acceptable compromise between low-end and the pipes themselves starting to sing in tune (or was that sympathy). So my t-lines have been sitting under the bed fro about 3 years now waiting for further inspiration (playing bedtime music). The $150 dollar items (picture in post 1) look the goods for computer speakers though - I might grab the 4 inchers I was using and mount them the same way.
I did see a new sort of pipe the other day that might get this back on track - some sort of half-inch thick pipe (in various sizes). It had a black coating and the inside is pretty much 'clear'. When I rapped on it, it sounded very dead. But it's pretty expensive...
I did see a new sort of pipe the other day that might get this back on track - some sort of half-inch thick pipe (in various sizes). It had a black coating and the inside is pretty much 'clear'. When I rapped on it, it sounded very dead. But it's pretty expensive...
In addition to the four FM69s that I got from David Barnes, I got four W3-593s for a Voigt-ish center channel.
After this, I think that center channel will be another of these pipe projects. For that, I'm going to use the black ABS pipes. They have thicker walls and are almost twice the cost of the white PVC. I expect those to be considerably more inert than the pipes I'm using now.
ensen.
After this, I think that center channel will be another of these pipe projects. For that, I'm going to use the black ABS pipes. They have thicker walls and are almost twice the cost of the white PVC. I expect those to be considerably more inert than the pipes I'm using now.
ensen.
Drivers and wires are soldered now.
Elbows have a socket and spigot end. The drivers is mounted to an cap that fits over the spigot. The socket is the same diameter as a cap so the second cap is butted up and masking tape to hold them together until the sleeve insert. Four bump feet and a hole in the middle for the wires to come through.
Sound pretty good tuned this way. I can confirm the 90Hz response of the driver as low notes are missing from the piano in Guaraldi's Charlie Brown Christmas. Enigma and Sade sound pretty good but acoustic instruments in Buena Vista Social Club sound a bit muddled. It's as if sounds with lots of harmonics are striking too many other resonances inside the pipe. The anomalous part is that piano is sounding pretty good, even if some of the harmonics are missing.
ensen.
Elbows have a socket and spigot end. The drivers is mounted to an cap that fits over the spigot. The socket is the same diameter as a cap so the second cap is butted up and masking tape to hold them together until the sleeve insert. Four bump feet and a hole in the middle for the wires to come through.
Sound pretty good tuned this way. I can confirm the 90Hz response of the driver as low notes are missing from the piano in Guaraldi's Charlie Brown Christmas. Enigma and Sade sound pretty good but acoustic instruments in Buena Vista Social Club sound a bit muddled. It's as if sounds with lots of harmonics are striking too many other resonances inside the pipe. The anomalous part is that piano is sounding pretty good, even if some of the harmonics are missing.
ensen.
No, they won't be. They'll still ring like a bell. You have to dampen them somehow. I suggest covering them, either on the inside or outside, with some sort of heavy craft glue.purplepeople said:In addition to the four FM69s that I got from David Barnes, I got four W3-593s for a Voigt-ish center channel.
After this, I think that center channel will be another of these pipe projects. For that, I'm going to use the black ABS pipes. They have thicker walls and are almost twice the cost of the white PVC. I expect those to be considerably more inert than the pipes I'm using now.
If you cover them on the outside, you can use the glue to stick stuff it very easily--like felt--and the damping will increase.
If your enclosures are small enough, you can probably manage to stick some material to the inside walls without significantly decreasing the volume or shape of the enclosure.
Dave
PS--Damp or dampen? I always forget the correct technical term.
Anyway I wouldn't call it art... more like "crafts".
1/ this would be a pretty easy one to go after... build a better one & sell it cheaper (and be honest -- people like that these days). The idea of flogging them on eBay isn't bad.
2/ my toobz predate the Sampson projects (and at least in private mail has given me credit) and mine were inspired by others even earlier. Aside: the wooden insets top & bottom went a long way to killing the pipe wall resonances -- also lined with foam.
3/ Dave -- why don't you send a mail to the guy, point out all the refs, and in particular this thread... cc it to any number of publications (althou that might give him publicity to sell his stuff)
4/ the expensive ones -- who's pricing is perhaps out of line -- may only be a flagship to sell the babies, which i suspect probably offer better value than Bose.
5/ 5-10x cost is more typical of a retail product (some cables & various snake oil products excluded). margin on direct sales items is usually less.
dave
2/ my toobz predate the Sampson projects (and at least in private mail has given me credit) and mine were inspired by others even earlier. Aside: the wooden insets top & bottom went a long way to killing the pipe wall resonances -- also lined with foam.
3/ Dave -- why don't you send a mail to the guy, point out all the refs, and in particular this thread... cc it to any number of publications (althou that might give him publicity to sell his stuff)
4/ the expensive ones -- who's pricing is perhaps out of line -- may only be a flagship to sell the babies, which i suspect probably offer better value than Bose.
5/ 5-10x cost is more typical of a retail product (some cables & various snake oil products excluded). margin on direct sales items is usually less.
dave
Dave:
I've seen the Toobz on your website, along with the Sampson pipes. Sorry man, all this time I didn't notice that they were an earlier project. I guess the question now is whether any of the sonotube projects are even older than all the usual suspects.
I agree with you that the high end products are only there to sell the lower priced stuff. But, based on what I've built, I have to say that the $149 Flows are highly overpriced. I might pay $99 CAD for them, but no more!
ensen.
I've seen the Toobz on your website, along with the Sampson pipes. Sorry man, all this time I didn't notice that they were an earlier project. I guess the question now is whether any of the sonotube projects are even older than all the usual suspects.
I agree with you that the high end products are only there to sell the lower priced stuff. But, based on what I've built, I have to say that the $149 Flows are highly overpriced. I might pay $99 CAD for them, but no more!
ensen.- Status
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