Cyburgs-Needle for Tangband W3-871S

Cyburgs · 9th December 2004, 11:43 PM

I hope that this could be of interest for you.

I constructed the Cyburgs-Needle originally for Visaton FRS8, which is a nice and cheap fullrange driver here in Europe. The Needle was quite a sucess here, I know of about 20 pairs built by DIYers, and there may be even more. However, I have been looking for an alternative driver to make a "High-End" version of the Needle. I tested several different 8cm drivers, and the Tangband W3-871S finally did it. Unlike the FRS8, you need a notch filter, the values you will find in the plan.
I think that the availability of the Tangband is better outside of Europe, so I hope you will have fun with this plan.

Nice greetings, Berndt

gmilitano · 9th December 2004, 11:50 PM

Do you have a frequency response from a model or actual measurements?

Gio.

Cyburgs · 9th December 2004, 11:54 PM

... in the Visaton forum, where you can see very nicely built Needles. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of the two pairs I built.
The threads are in German btw.

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

Not a thread about Needles, but on the second picture you see a Needle with Tangband:
http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

Cyburgs · 10th December 2004, 12:14 AM

Unfortunately not, I forgot to make screenshots, shame on me. And at this time I don't have ready built needles. I will provide the plots when I have built my next pair.
From sound point of view they are fairly flat, and will provide bass down to under 50 Hz in the room. So a sub is not necessary. The SPLmax is limited of course, for it is only a 8cm driver. The soundstage is very impressive as with most small fullrange drivers.

Nice greetings, Berndt

dvdwmth · 12th December 2004, 05:53 PM

Excellent.

Ive been wanting to find a design like this for some time for the w3871s. Really couldn't bring myself to tackle those mathcad worksheets.

You really get below 50hz with these things? Thats amazing.

Nice job on those bigger visaton cabinets by the way. The wood rings look really good.

Cyburgs · 12th December 2004, 11:25 PM

@dvdwmth:
Yeah, the woodrings look really nice, but I think they need quite experienced handicraft. Seems not to be easy.

The bass coming from Needles and Bricks is really amazing for such a small driver. But as I said before, the physics can not be cheated, the SPLmax is naturally limited.

Nice greetings, Berndt

Timn8ter · 13th December 2004, 12:06 AM

I don't understand how a driver with Fs = 110Hz can work well in a line that long. Unless I'm mistaken it appears to be 70" long.

Cyburgs · 13th December 2004, 11:19 AM

@timn8ter:
This trick works amazingly well in TQWPs with high-QTS drivers. You are right, the line is about 70" long, which gives a tuning of the line of about 50Hz.
Together with the room gain it gives a nice and solid bass reproduction.

Nice greetings, Berndt

zobsky · 16th December 2004, 02:57 AM

sounds interesting, ... what about using 2 drivers per cabinet to overcome SPL limitations ??

zobsky · 16th December 2004, 03:39 AM

i guess that would involve doubling the cross sectional area of the line

9th December 2004, 11:43 PM	#1
Cyburgs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austria	Cyburgs-Needle for Tangband W3-871S I hope that this could be of interest for you. I constructed the Cyburgs-Needle originally for Visaton FRS8, which is a nice and cheap fullrange driver here in Europe. The Needle was quite a sucess here, I know of about 20 pairs built by DIYers, and there may be even more. However, I have been looking for an alternative driver to make a "High-End" version of the Needle. I tested several different 8cm drivers, and the Tangband W3-871S finally did it. Unlike the FRS8, you need a notch filter, the values you will find in the plan. I think that the availability of the Tangband is better outside of Europe, so I hope you will have fun with this plan. Nice greetings, Berndt

9th December 2004, 11:50 PM	#2
gmilitano diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba	Re: Cyburgs-Needle for Tangband W3-871S Do you have a frequency response from a model or actual measurements? Gio.

9th December 2004, 11:54 PM	#3
Cyburgs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austria	Some threads ... ... in the Visaton forum, where you can see very nicely built Needles. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of the two pairs I built. The threads are in German btw. http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle Not a thread about Needles, but on the second picture you see a Needle with Tangband: http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....ghlight=needle

10th December 2004, 12:14 AM	#4
Cyburgs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austria	@Gio: Unfortunately not, I forgot to make screenshots, shame on me. And at this time I don't have ready built needles. I will provide the plots when I have built my next pair. From sound point of view they are fairly flat, and will provide bass down to under 50 Hz in the room. So a sub is not necessary. The SPLmax is limited of course, for it is only a 8cm driver. The soundstage is very impressive as with most small fullrange drivers. Nice greetings, Berndt

16th December 2004, 02:57 AM	#9
zobsky diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA	sounds interesting, ... what about using 2 drivers per cabinet to overcome SPL limitations ?? __________________ "Any fool can know. The point is to understand" - Albert Einstein


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12th December 2004, 05:53 PM	#5
dvdwmth diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto	Excellent. Ive been wanting to find a design like this for some time for the w3871s. Really couldn't bring myself to tackle those mathcad worksheets. You really get below 50hz with these things? Thats amazing. Nice job on those bigger visaton cabinets by the way. The wood rings look really good.

12th December 2004, 11:25 PM	#6
Cyburgs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austria	@dvdwmth: Yeah, the woodrings look really nice, but I think they need quite experienced handicraft. Seems not to be easy. The bass coming from Needles and Bricks is really amazing for such a small driver. But as I said before, the physics can not be cheated, the SPLmax is naturally limited. Nice greetings, Berndt

13th December 2004, 12:06 AM	#7
Timn8ter diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	I don't understand how a driver with Fs = 110Hz can work well in a line that long. Unless I'm mistaken it appears to be 70" long.

13th December 2004, 11:19 AM	#8
Cyburgs diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austria	@timn8ter: This trick works amazingly well in TQWPs with high-QTS drivers. You are right, the line is about 70" long, which gives a tuning of the line of about 50Hz. Together with the room gain it gives a nice and solid bass reproduction. Nice greetings, Berndt

16th December 2004, 03:39 AM	#10
zobsky diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx, USA	i guess that would involve doubling the cross sectional area of the line __________________ "Any fool can know. The point is to understand" - Albert Einstein

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