Cyburgs-Needle for Tangband W3-871S

[hm]

Hello,

look the Xmax,

try Omnes Audio 3.01
or FRS8M Visaton
or Monacor SPH 30X

[kristleifur]

Hi, here are some new Cyburgs Needle notch-filter convolution impulses:

http://www.box.net/shared/it1katzl5z

4k 32bit needlenotch 6db cut at 21hz 2q
This is basically the same notch as last time, except that it has a subsonic filter included, also linear-phase. It is a highpass filter at 21Hz with a -6dB attenuation and a Q of 2. I couldn't hear any difference in the bass that is normally audible in the Needle using this subsonic cut. It might help with excursion and amp wattage, but I'm not sure.

RIGHT 4k 32bit needlenotch 6db cut at 21hz 2q
This is the same as above, except that the notch + subsonic filter are only applied to the RIGHT channel. Useful for comparison, maybe.

NeedleNotch from Waves LinearPhase EQ from Unitpulse2K
This is the notch from last time. I believe the new one is a bit better, as this old version is 16-bit and has dithering. I think that messes with the convolution. Doesn't help, at least. (The new ones are 32-bit and undithered.)


Edit: I remade the original notch, the one without the subsonic cut, as a 32-bit undithered file. It should be identical but slightly superior to the old notch:
4k 32bit needlenotch - clean bass


To recap: The bottom file should behave identically to the electronic notch for the Needle. The top file is the same, except that it relieves your amp and speakers from handling frequencies that the Needle can't reproduce anyway. I recommend the top file.

[AdamThorne]

Cool! I look forward to trying them. Thanks a million! Now I have a question: Do you think a higher cutoff might be useful? The needle's -3db was around 50hz or something, right? I have to wonder if having a bass cut between 30 and 40 hz would be too high, or if it would be helpful. I don't know how low of information is actually making it to my ears. Maybe I'll try playing with some test tones to find out...

Thanks again for making those up!

A

[kristleifur]

I went for the biggest cut in the subsonics that I could get without an audible difference in the bass. The bass range is where this particular plugin is a bit hard to control, so yes, I do think there's probably more that we can do. Let's see what we can see

(BTW, there's a bit of attenuation even at 30-35Hz with these filters. I set the slope of the filter to 'eat' as much bass as I could, until I started to hear it, then I backed off a bit. If the frequency diagram in the plugin I'm using is accurate, I'm hearing down to 40Hz in the room that I'm in now.)

[kristleifur]

Originally posted by AdamThorne
Needles + T-amp running out of power: You know, now that I think about it, the t-amp gets to 6 or 8 watts and then THD starts rising sharply. I'll bet my louder listening sessions are when the amp starts to get up that THD climb a little, and that's the sound I'm hearing. Probably a clean 15 or 20 watts rather than 10% THD or more would get a bit more volume out of the speakers than I'm getting currently. Either way, some infrasonic blocking will probably get me a bit more volume.

I've just got an 41Hz Amp6 built. Using it, the needles do get a little ear-stabby before they run out of Xmax. Compared to an all-round worse-sounding Marantz 1040 amp, the needles didn't get this midrange nastiness before bass clipping.

My verdict is that the 12-14V Tripath amps, such as the T-amp and the Amp6, aren't quite powerful enough for Needles. I'm looking forward to hearing an Amp4 playing the Needles, as the Amp6 is FAR better than the Marantz. MUCH greater bass, and the dynamics ...

Basically, it's like there weren't dynamics before, and now there are. Percussion is a different thing - with the Marantz, I just hear the timbre of the drums. With the Amp6, they punch the air. Crazy.

Electronic music is freaking awesome through this system. Even when it's played to clipping in the amp. Check Tri Repetae-era Autechre and Richard Devine's Itsuko if you can. IDM-induced pants-soiled toupee-falling-off surprise is a good indicator that you've got a system right.

Also illustrative of the niceness of the Needles IMO is that they even do dub rather well. Dub, from Jamaica. You know, the stuff that's made out of bass.

[bzdang]

It's worth doing to listen to them with the low bass signal cut, as the reduction in cone excursion really cleans up the sound, perhaps more than one can imagine before hearing the difference.

[kristleifur]

Originally posted by bzdang
It's worth doing to listen to them with the low bass signal cut, as the reduction in cone excursion really cleans up the sound, perhaps more than one can imagine before hearing the difference.

Interesting, I'll have to try to make a more dramatic bass-cut impulse. How did you go about cutting the bass, bzdang?

[bzdang]

With an active crossover, 24dB/octave highpass which can be set low enough (around 40Hz - 80Hz). Some subwoofer crossovers are suitable if they have both low and high pass outputs, even pro-audio and car-audio crossovers will work for this experiment.

If crossover has a defeat switch you can play music with vocals and bass, and listen to the vocals as you toggle the defeat switch.

[hm]

Hello,

bzdanq is right,

my opinion ist the best way to cut it active, may be the sub modul,

or passive only 6 dB, try different uF, the impedanz makes
it possible to take smaller uF around 300 Hz but the real cut
is near 100 Hz, my simulation experience with Flute.

[bzdang]

Listen to the female vocalist Oleta Adams in
The Badman's Song on the album The Seeds of Love by Tears for Fears, enough concurrent bass to garble the vocals without the crossover. Some parts of the song are dense and the low cut will help improve resolution (if that's the right word).

Oh and the snappy percussion will help you to smile at your C-Needles!