Cyburgs-Needle for Tangband W3-871S

[jaste]

I really treid to find something about it, but I did'nt so Ill just break it too you,

Has anyone tried the needle with the hivi b3n? Good, bad?

[2020audio]

has anyone tried this driver in a Needle? what adjustments would be necessary to make it work. I have been playing with different sealed designs and havent gotten the sound i want. see thread aurasound 3" thanks for any help

[AdamThorne]

thanks for your router / dremel-router thoughts. =)

My needles are coming along. I am in the glue a joint then wait..... glue another joint then wait....... stage. Soon I'll be trying to judge the amount of stuffing to put in. I figure it's stuff, clamp a side, then listen. When it sounds good you got it right. Does anyone have any tips on most quickly getting the stuffing set up? How does one secure the stuffing inside the speaker so it doesn't float all around?

Here's my next question: Has anyone thought of making an active filter for the tang band driver? In a multi-way an active driver means multiple amps and some difficulty along these lines. But with a single driver and such a simple filter it seems it would be easy, economical, and would address the desire to go completely filterless between the driver and the amp.

Not that I'd know exactly how to execute it, at this point... but the whole objective is to learn some stuff, so I bet I can track down some info about doing it... I'm starting with the passive notch filter, in an external chassis.

[mod_sonic]

Hi Adam

Haven't quite got to the stuffing stage yet, but I started looking at pillows today for a cheap source of (Dacron Polyfil) stuffing.

I did see that you thought you would stuff the Needles, clamp a side and listen. I decided to glue both sides on, and I have screwed the tops on instead, so I can get access to the stuffing, and ram it tighter at the bottom as Cyburgs recommended.

FWIW I also screwed the bottoms on because I'm not convinced Cyburgs dimensions as drawn are large enough for stability in public. If they are too small I can then easily replace them with something larger.

Mark

[kristleifur]

Originally posted by AdamThorne
Here's my next question: Has anyone thought of making an active filter for the tang band driver? In a multi-way an active driver means multiple amps and some difficulty along these lines. But with a single driver and such a simple filter it seems it would be easy, economical, and would address the desire to go completely filterless between the driver and the amp.
[/B]

I've been thinking of it, yes

I don't know much about filters, but I assume that the filter's effect is based on the resistor, cap and inductor in the filter itself, and then the impedance of the speaker. Could somebody clarify what effect the speaker's impedance has on the filter value? I assume that the speaker's variable impedance across the frequency range has some effect, rather than the 8-ohm overall nominal impedance.

In short: What's are the notch filter's parameters (slope, cutoff, etc.) in the frequency domain? Knowing that, some filter experiments could be performed in software.

[ssherk27]

In post #19 of this thread Cyburgs mentions a typo in his notch filter's values. I'm afraid I can't find the correction anywhere. What are the proper values for this notch filter?
Thanks.

[Cyburgs]

Dear ssherk27,

the values in the plan of post 19 are the corrected values. I wrote for capacitor and resistor 6.7 but the standard values are all 6.8

If you take the values of post 19, everything is all right.

Nice greetings, Berndt

[AdamThorne]

Well I've got my needles running. I still have to finish/paint them, so no pics yet. I converted to inches, used 3/4" MDF and whoopsed an extra 1/4 inch into the width of them, so they have a larger appearance than many of the pictures I've seen.

I am very pleased with them! The low end is quite amazing. You must refrain from attempting to power your dance party with them, but for a person sitting and listening they go quite loud enough.

I've read many descriptions of the bass that sound pleased, but not overenthusiastic. This must originate from a juxtaposition of two factors:
a) the bass is fantastic
b) you can't play it super loud

Item 'a' justifies enthusiasm, 'b' moderates it. I don't want anyone who hasn't yet built these to misunderstand that the low freq performance is merely acceptable. Until you hit the power handling limit of the setup the bottom end is super super sweet. Tuneful, though not super tight in my setup. Low frequency material with high frequency overtones (e.g. synthetic sq. waves) sound sharp, fast and integrated like they never have from multi-driver speakers I've heard. The spl limit keeps more people from voicing stronger enthusiasm, I think.

Note: They are playing in a house w/ hardwood floors, and I think they may be hitting a room resonance near the bottom. They're currently being driven by an old radio shack mini-integrated until my backordered t-amp finally comes through.

SO. I've been inviting friends over to check them out and now a number of people want me to help them build some. No problem, as long as someone else is writing the check! =) But, of course, I'm thinking about variations.

Specifically I'm thinking about sticking that Hi-Vi driver in 'em (pending agreement from the interested party). Uh, if I remember correctly from the pages on this thread there has been talk, but has anyone actually done this yet? Anyone have anything to share before we start ordering parts? I look forward to being able to post a direct comparison of the Needles with these two drivers.

Also, the filter. As yet I have not the experience to design one, nor have I the spare parts to make lots of test filters. I was figuring I'd implement the filter from the ZaphAudio B3S project. Does this sound reasonable? It looks like Zaph implements BSC (with L1, R2 - or am I wrong?), while the Needle does not? Can anyone comment on these two different choices?

Also, I might end up facilitating the construction of a pair of "Sticks" with the TB 4" Bamboo driver, depending on what my friends decide they want to make. That also sounds like fun!

[Cyburgs]

Dear Adam,

thank you for the review, I am very glad to hear that you like them.
I like especially your description of the bass reproduction, because In my opinion it hits the point. Sometimes people write that the bass reproduction can not be good because the driver is too small. They are right and wrong at the same time. Bass is good, when it fits tonally to the Hights and Mids, in that sense the bass of the Needle is very good. Bass is good when it blows out your window, in that sense the bass of the Needle sucks.

Unfortunately I have no experience with the HiVi driver in the Needle, so I can not give any recommendations. I didn't implement a baffle step compensation, just because the Needle doesn't need one. The bass and lower mids are strong enough to compensate the baffle step by themselves in normal listening room application.

Nice greetings, Berndt

[type]

Originally posted by AdamThorne
Well I've got my needles running. I still have to finish/paint them, so no pics yet. I converted to inches, used 3/4" MDF and whoopsed an extra 1/4 inch into the width of them, so they have a larger appearance than many of the pictures I've seen.

I am very pleased with them! The low end is quite amazing. You must refrain from attempting to power your dance party with them, but for a person sitting and listening they go quite loud enough.

I've read many descriptions of the bass that sound pleased, but not overenthusiastic. This must originate from a juxtaposition of two factors:
a) the bass is fantastic
b) you can't play it super loud

Item 'a' justifies enthusiasm, 'b' moderates it. I don't want anyone who hasn't yet built these to misunderstand that the low freq performance is merely acceptable. Until you hit the power handling limit of the setup the bottom end is super super sweet. Tuneful, though not super tight in my setup. Low frequency material with high frequency overtones (e.g. synthetic sq. waves) sound sharp, fast and integrated like they never have from multi-driver speakers I've heard. The spl limit keeps more people from voicing stronger enthusiasm, I think.

Note: They are playing in a house w/ hardwood floors, and I think they may be hitting a room resonance near the bottom. They're currently being driven by an old radio shack mini-integrated until my backordered t-amp finally comes through.

SO. I've been inviting friends over to check them out and now a number of people want me to help them build some. No problem, as long as someone else is writing the check! =) But, of course, I'm thinking about variations.

Specifically I'm thinking about sticking that Hi-Vi driver in 'em (pending agreement from the interested party). Uh, if I remember correctly from the pages on this thread there has been talk, but has anyone actually done this yet? Anyone have anything to share before we start ordering parts? I look forward to being able to post a direct comparison of the Needles with these two drivers.

Also, the filter. As yet I have not the experience to design one, nor have I the spare parts to make lots of test filters. I was figuring I'd implement the filter from the ZaphAudio B3S project. Does this sound reasonable? It looks like Zaph implements BSC (with L1, R2 - or am I wrong?), while the Needle does not? Can anyone comment on these two different choices?

Also, I might end up facilitating the construction of a pair of "Sticks" with the TB 4" Bamboo driver, depending on what my friends decide they want to make. That also sounds like fun!

I'd say go for it. Get the Hi-Vi B3s and try it. I have both the B3S and the W3-871s and IMO they're close but the B3s is the better driver. The highs of the TB are a tiny bit better, as in, they're a little bit airier but the overall balance and the fact that the B3S has usable bass makes it the better of the two IMHO. I've been thinking of building a pair of needles for quite some time and now I think I have to.