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abpea 10th September 2004 12:32 PM

New 48" ML-TL Review
 
2 Attachment(s)
I would like to report my impressions of GM's latest variation of his ML-TL speaker design using the Jordan JX92S. I'll try not to gush or over-embellish. :rolleyes:

All dimensions are internal.

This latest speaker is a 48" triangular cross-section with a 2" port.

When I first listened to these speakers I didn't like them, there was something different about the sound. After several hours of listening and adjusting the stuffing (Acoustistuff) I figured out what was bothering me about the sound.

These speakers go way down low.

I measured the previous versions (original design and trapezoid CS) of the ML-TLs down to ~45Hz. I measured the new 48ers down to ~35Hz. I have never owned speakers that went this low or listened to any that do for any amount of time. The extra 10Hz make a significant difference to the sound IMO.

After getting the stuffing just right (at first they boomed like crazy) I called a few friends over and we settled in for some serious listening. Once again a wide assortment of music was played to help us evaluate the new setup.

At the end of the day everyone agreed the new 48ers were the best of the three ML-TLs built so far. The sound seems richer, warmer and more full. There seems to be 'more' there. I'm convinced I'm hearing more low level information which is adding to or enhancing the sounds I'm hearing but I don't know how to prove it. The 48ers feel more emotional or intimate than the others. A good example was when we were playing Stan Getz's Anniversary cd which was recorded live at the Montmartre Club in Copenhagen. The imaging was holographic and simply spectacular, it felt like we were setting about two tables back from the stage... or maybe it was the wine we were drinking. :xeye:

Another item, GM told me, "... 48" is long enough to get strong pipe action... The tradeoff with a FR driver is it will audibly modulate the mids/HF, so clarity will suffer somewhat."

Maybe we didn't drive them hard enough although those cones were doing a lot of dancing, but none of us could hear any degredation in clarity. In other words everything sounded beautifly clear and natural to our ears. On the other hand we really didn't know what we were listening for other than 'good' sound. :xeye:

There was one weakness everyone agreed on. These speakers (and maybe all FRs in general) are superb listening to acoustic, female/male voice, piano/jazz type of music. But they let you down big time listening to loud hard rock/metal music. The punch of loud rock music just isn't there. Rock/metal music sounded anemic on these speakers. But that's ok cause I don't listen to that much rock anyway. :whazzat:

I recommend this design to anyone interested in building an excellent sounding ML-TL!

(All dimensions internal)
Baffle = 11"
Sides = 7.75"
L = 48.0"
XO = 15.45"
Vent = 2" wide x 2.75" long (center of vent is 4" above bottom)
Stuffing = 0.54lb

Enjoy -
Bruce

abpea 10th September 2004 01:23 PM

About stuffing
 
A little more info...

The 48ers seem to be much more sensitive to the amount of stuffing added than previous versions of GM's ML-TLs I've built. I've spent a lot more time tweaking the stuffing on these 48" cabinets than any of the others and the pay-off has been worth it.

The low-end is simply wonderful now. Not 'boomy' at all, more 'bouncy'. Not dull but lively. Pleasantly punchy.

One other thing, and I don't know if I'm having sonic hallucinations or not, but to me piano notes, for example, seem to have much greater sustain than I've ever noticed before. The notes sound rounder, more fuller. Overall this cabinet just seems to have a more pleasing sound.

Standard disclaimer... YMMV.

Bruce

greyhorse 11th September 2004 02:38 PM

abpea,
Is this GM's improved version you were talking about on the following page? I've been holding back on buying the wood, waiting for it to come out.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=6

abpea 11th September 2004 04:14 PM

greyhorse,

The thread you reference above is discussing an earlier version, 31" pipe compared to 48" pipe on this latest version.

I have to tell you either one sounds great. The external dimensions for the baffle on the latest version I built is 13"w x 50.25"l which is about 1/3 larger than the cabinet being discussed in the thread you referenced.

If space is a concern go with the smaller one, you won't be sorry.

Bruce

navin 13th September 2004 05:39 AM

Re: New 48" ML-TL Review
 
Quote:

Originally posted by abpea
There was one weakness everyone agreed on. These speakers (and maybe all FRs in general) are superb listening to acoustic, female/male voice, piano/jazz type of music. But they let you down big time listening to loud hard rock/metal music.
Does this apply to the smaller 31" line and the trapezoidal line too. Since you have built all 3 lines which of these would sound best in an HT/AV enviroment. I am hoping to use the same system for HT/AV as well as audio.

I feel the box in the center of the "group shot" or the smaller on on it's left would have the best WAF.

abpea 13th September 2004 12:33 PM

Re: Re: New 48" ML-TL Review
 
Quote:

Originally posted by navin


Does this apply to the smaller 31" line and the trapezoidal line too. Since you have built all 3 lines which of these would sound best in an HT/AV enviroment. I am hoping to use the same system for HT/AV as well as audio.

I feel the box in the center of the "group shot" or the smaller on on it's left would have the best WAF.


Hello navin,

Yes, same applies to all of the different versions. I think if you want a really big bottom end you're going to end up using a sub in your system for rock music, etc. On the other hand as I mentioned, if you mainly listen to accoustial, live, jazz type of music these speakers will delight you to no end.

The smaller cabinet in the picture is the trapezoidal version. I actually was playing with different ways of mounting that speaker in our tv room to use in our HT setup. And you are right, the smaller one (trapezoidal) has a large WAF. My wife didn't object when we discussed mounting the 'traps' on the wall!! :) :) :)

Bruce

BAM 13th September 2004 04:10 PM

Just put fabric grilles on them that cover the whole front surface, and impress your friends with your gigantic speakers, and then take the grilles off to reveal the 5" driver.

Bricolo 13th September 2004 04:49 PM

has this one also been designed by GM?

navin 14th September 2004 05:32 AM

Re: Re: Re: New 48" ML-TL Review
 
Quote:

Originally posted by abpea
Yes, same applies to all of the different versions. I think if you want a really big bottom end you're going to end up using a sub.

The smaller cabinet in the picture is the trapezoidal version. I actually was playing with different ways of mounting that speaker in our tv room to use in our HT setup. And you are right, the smaller one (trapezoidal) has a large WAF. My wife didn't object when we discussed mounting the 'traps' on the wall!! :) :) :)

Bruce

Ofcourse I am planning to use Subs. I was hoping to use subs as low as possible but i might be restricted to the fixed XO freq provided by my HT/AVR (Marantz SR7000). Still slam is not only a factor of subs but also the midbass which would be provided for by the JX92. So what I am asking is that if we Xo the JX92 at say 80-100Hz will there be enough slam? for example if we want to hear the slam of a window/door realistically. While a sub would be moving most of the air the overtones would be reporduced by the JX92.

U read my mind. Wall mounting the JX92 is exactly what I am after. My guess is the small one is about 32" tall and the one in the center is 48". right?


Quote:

Originally posted by BAM
Just put fabric grilles on them that cover the whole front surface, and impress your friends with your gigantic speakers, and then take the grilles off to reveal the 5" driver.
I am looking for the exact opposite effect.
1. I dont need to impress my friends with gigantic speakers because my big DV12 based subs already do that.
2. I am looking to have speaker that are as small as possible that do not compromise on sound and are affordable (the JX92 is the upper end of affordability but I guess I save some money in XO and tweeter costs). Ideally I would be looking at a speaker that looks like the Bose Acoustimass system but that is more listenable.

chacruz 14th September 2004 06:23 PM

I'm toying with the idea of building a FR speaker.
Where can I find the drawings for the basic unit so I can apply the mods that are being suggested here?i.e. the triangle, dimm. changes,etc.
Thanks for your help:)
Santiago


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