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Old 5th August 2004, 12:24 AM   #1
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Default full range spkr sensitivity

i want to build full range speakers for a single ended amp that puts out 9 wpc.
would prefer 3" to 5" drivers.
i have tried tangbands and radio shack and fostex but all these speakers have relatively low sensitivity, requiring that the amp work too hard. i want better than 90 dB sensitivity at 1w/1m. Would prefer 92 or higher.

what 3" to 5" full range spkr would you recommend? spkrs that size all seem to be in the 86 to 89 range. out of desperation i even tried some 5.25" jensen car audio 4ohm full range speakers that are supposed to be 92 dB sensitivity. But they sounded horrible (not surprising) and did not play any louder than the other speakers i've tried.

the 3" tangband W3871S, by the way, sounds better (with sub) than any of the other speakers to date.
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Old 5th August 2004, 02:43 AM   #2
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What do you have against 6" drivers. Fostex has plenty that would fit your bill.
Other than that I believe Lowther just came out with some... a bit more money though, than most want to spend.
Joe
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Old 5th August 2004, 03:44 AM   #3
TheoM is offline TheoM  United States
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Default use multiple drivers

I just ran a model of the TangBand w4654s which has a sensitivity of 86db (like you say, not good). Then I stuck 4 of them in the same box and the effeciency of the system went up to like 95 db.

Anyway, that would solve your problem, but maybe create others. You could make a mini line-array. Even with two (like an mtm) my model shows the net system effeciency at around 92.

Another way to improve the effeciency would be by using it as a horn driver - but that's another ball game, so to speak.
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Old 5th August 2004, 05:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: full range spkr sensitivity

Quote:
Originally posted by audiotang
i want to build full range speakers for a single ended amp that puts out 9 wpc.
would prefer 3" to 5" drivers.
the 3" tangband W3871S, by the way, sounds better (with sub) than any of the other speakers to date.
i have a similar dilema.

the best you can get is about 90-91db using the fostex FF125K.

does your project allow for multiple drivers

BTW do you mean to say that the 871 sounded better than the fostex 103/107/ff85k?

i am looking at a speaker (wall mounted) that will contain a upward facing 4.5" (FF125K, FE127, TB W4-927/930) with a forward facing 3" (FF85K, FE83, TB W3-1008/871). The 3" will be rolled of at about 300-500Hz (1st order passive).

I expect the sens to be about 92db.

Why are u only lookig at 3-5" drivers? my reason is a limited box volume which is 12 liters (that I might have to strech to 14).
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Old 5th August 2004, 05:22 PM   #5
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Default why 4"

thanks. in answer to your question(s) the reason i want a smaller driver is, in my experience the larger the driver in a full range system, the more the "beaming" effect in the high frequencies. phase plugs and whizzers only marginally seem to help. I find that hard on the ears and unpleasant. the effect seems to be lessened with the smaller drivers such that i have found the 3" tangband i previously mentioned to have the best overall sound w/o excessive full range "shout". but i have not tried very many of the available drivers, instead trying to focus on finding the most sensitive full range driver i can. i might try a pair of the moth cicada, which i believe is more efficient than the fostex/tangband/audax full range?
as far as why, i want a horn loaded full range with high efficiency for my nOrh se9 single ended amp that cranks 9 wpc.
BUT my wife will butcher me and feed me in small pieces to our cat if i were to construct the usual massive horn loaded cabinet.
so i have constructed a flat horn based on similar designs i've seen on the web.... was very difficult for me to construct but it is compact.. can hang on the wall. And as previously noted the 3"tangbands sound the best so far (with sub). The horns really work as hoped and the sound is very full and "horny" with the tube amp yet smooth and very detailed w/o muddiness. i prefer it to the sound of my reference B&W dm110. BUT for higher volume levels i really need a more sensitive small full range driver.

hope that explains things a little better... see pic of almost finished speaker
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Old 5th August 2004, 08:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: why 4"

Getting a really efficient 4" is a challenge, because you keep bumping up against the small piston area... even the Lowther DX55 (more like a 5") is rated at 94 dB -- BTW this seems to be Nelson's favorite so far of his run through a whack of FRs.

Click the image to open in full size.

The only other small driver that may get up there is the small exact, and i beieve they make the Lowther look inexpensive.

Getting the efficiency of such a small driver way up requires expensive engineering and BIG magnets.

Your wall horns are elegant and will get the most out of a small driver ... i don't have the wall space and tend towards using a pr of drivers in each box -- i'm even contemplating 4, but that all of sudden means a tweeter and a crossover....

dave
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Old 5th August 2004, 08:24 PM   #7
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Default Hmmm

Well if you are willing to bend your requirements a little bit, you should look into the Phl 6.5 inchers. They have efficiencies from 93 - 100 dB. Plus if you're going to operate them wide range, I think you'll find they give a broader freq. spectrum.

David
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Old 5th August 2004, 08:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
The only other small driver that may get up there is the small exact, and i beieve they make the Lowther look inexpensive.
That's an understatement. Reported efficiency of 100db and sold on auction only, starting bid around US$5000.
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Old 5th August 2004, 08:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: why 4"

Audiotang-
thanks for your answer, I find myself in about the same place. I ended up with a 108e sigma, but that leaves me with somewhat limited dynamics (I've only got 6 wpc). Now that I've been listening to these for a while I keep eyeing the larger fostex drivers wanting more dynamics. I've heard the 208e sigmas, but never lived with any larger fullrange drivers, so I don't have any real exprience with beaming. Although I have heard that the FX200 tend not to beam very much due to a flatter cone.... this is just second hand gossip though.

On a different subject your wall horn look very nice. Are the based off of the Cornu spiral horns? They look like they are curved inside but it is hard to tell. They all so look like they would take up some serious wall space. I hope they work out for you, and would be interested in what you think of the final result.
Joe
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Old 5th August 2004, 09:57 PM   #10
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Default hi joe

joe thanks for your comments. I have been conceptualizing how to incorporate a horn without displacing any living space; the ever important WAF to be considered. I have drawn up some plans for placement of horns inside the walls and may well do that. I also drew up some plans for a "flat"speaker, but with the speaker on the edge rather than the middle. When i saw the cornu horn i thought i could do something like that.

the cornu horn is larger and also has 4 horns. mine is only 24" square 4" deep and only has one horn. the other difference from the cornu horn is that in my case the speaker sits in a damped chamber that is attached to the horn. the german fellow's speaker feeds directly into the 4 horns which i think must limit the bass output.
but what do i know? I am very happy with the sound i am getting, NOW I UNDERSTAND this whole low power/horn speaker thing. It is a whole different ball game!

i also like the reaction i am getting when people see the diminutive 3" speaker and then hear the BIG horn sound. to most people used to big woofers and big boxes it does not seem possible.
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