Several months ago I started building the Jordan JX92S TL cabinet (Kronos Essence clone) found on Jordan's website. Just when I was about done I read a thread on diyAudio about a new cabinet designed for the little Jordan driver that was suppose to sound exponentially better than the TL cabinet I was finishing. I filed the thread away and got busy doing something else.
A couple of weeks ago I was back in speaker building mode and decided to give the new design a run. I contacted GM who pointed me to Jay Fisher who had built the cabinets. I want to thank both GM and Jay for all their generous help and feedback.
GM's design is a mass loaded transmission line speaker. The cabinet is easy to build and because I was doing this as a proof-of-concept project I built the cabinet as simply and quickly as possible which means I used glued butt joints all the way around. The ply-wood was cheap 3/4" six-ply with voids because that's what I had lying around (see attached picture).
When I hooked the MLTLs up to the amp for the first time I realized I had overstuffed the cabinet. After making some stuffing adjustments these cabinets came alive.
The amount of bass GM milks out of these speakers and cabinets is simply amazing! The first day I listened to these speakers for a good seven hours. My play list included the Boston Pops, Jacqueline du Pre' playing the Elgar Concerto, lots and lots of Jimmy Smith, Bill Evans and Stan Getz, Del McCourty, Bella Fleck and other blue grass, Ben Webster, Lester Young, Miles Davis, Coultrane, Evanescence, Nora Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, Led Zepplin, REO Speedwagon, Kansas, Diana Krall, Sade, a great Windom Hill acoustical sampler and Eva Cassidy and others.
The little Jordan was especially sweet on female voices and the acoustical numbers just as you would expect from a quality full range driver. When I closed my eyes I honestly thought Diana Krall was sitting right in front of me the sound was so intimate.
But the best part, the part that astonished and delighted me the most was the bottom end that was coming out of these boxes. Absolutely amazing!! There was one Jimmy Smith song where he pushes the low E(?) peddle on the Hammand B3 and nearly knocked me out of my chair. I auditioned the speakers for some friends and after a couple of songs one of them asked me where the sub-woofer was because they thought I had a sub stuck behind the couch, the bass was that good.
These speakers are easy to build and sound fabulous! Even more the cabinet has a high WAF factor. My plans are to get some good wood and build a real pair of these speakers in the next couple of weeks which I imagine will only sound better with a carefully made cabinet.
GM thanks for an excellent speaker design. These things have a beautiful, full, rich voice that has amazed everyone who has heard them so far.
If you're looking for a fairly compact speaker with a high WAF I highly recommend GM's MLTL Jordan speakers.
Bruce
A couple of weeks ago I was back in speaker building mode and decided to give the new design a run. I contacted GM who pointed me to Jay Fisher who had built the cabinets. I want to thank both GM and Jay for all their generous help and feedback.
GM's design is a mass loaded transmission line speaker. The cabinet is easy to build and because I was doing this as a proof-of-concept project I built the cabinet as simply and quickly as possible which means I used glued butt joints all the way around. The ply-wood was cheap 3/4" six-ply with voids because that's what I had lying around (see attached picture).
When I hooked the MLTLs up to the amp for the first time I realized I had overstuffed the cabinet. After making some stuffing adjustments these cabinets came alive.
The amount of bass GM milks out of these speakers and cabinets is simply amazing! The first day I listened to these speakers for a good seven hours. My play list included the Boston Pops, Jacqueline du Pre' playing the Elgar Concerto, lots and lots of Jimmy Smith, Bill Evans and Stan Getz, Del McCourty, Bella Fleck and other blue grass, Ben Webster, Lester Young, Miles Davis, Coultrane, Evanescence, Nora Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, Led Zepplin, REO Speedwagon, Kansas, Diana Krall, Sade, a great Windom Hill acoustical sampler and Eva Cassidy and others.
The little Jordan was especially sweet on female voices and the acoustical numbers just as you would expect from a quality full range driver. When I closed my eyes I honestly thought Diana Krall was sitting right in front of me the sound was so intimate.
But the best part, the part that astonished and delighted me the most was the bottom end that was coming out of these boxes. Absolutely amazing!! There was one Jimmy Smith song where he pushes the low E(?) peddle on the Hammand B3 and nearly knocked me out of my chair. I auditioned the speakers for some friends and after a couple of songs one of them asked me where the sub-woofer was because they thought I had a sub stuck behind the couch, the bass was that good.
These speakers are easy to build and sound fabulous! Even more the cabinet has a high WAF factor. My plans are to get some good wood and build a real pair of these speakers in the next couple of weeks which I imagine will only sound better with a carefully made cabinet.
GM thanks for an excellent speaker design. These things have a beautiful, full, rich voice that has amazed everyone who has heard them so far.
If you're looking for a fairly compact speaker with a high WAF I highly recommend GM's MLTL Jordan speakers.
Bruce
Attachments
Glad you like them and thanks for sharing! The credit goes to Ted Jordan though for specing T/S values that makes it a 'natural' for most cab alignments, and with enough excursion to tune it to a lowish Fs without fear of overdriving it at rated power.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to your comparison of it to the Kronos Essence clone.
GM
Anyway, I'm looking forward to your comparison of it to the Kronos Essence clone.
GM
The drawings are missing some key numbers. How long and how wide is the port tube? How tall is the enclosed part of the box? How tall is that horn-like area? Is there an MLK worksheet for it?
Added later: I see now that there is a number for the height, but it is too fuzzy (on my monitor at least) to read. Also, I don't know if it is the distance to the floor, or the distance to the bottom of the enclosed area above the horn area. I see a number for "baffle" something, but it's too fuzzy also.
Soo... Could you post all the internal dimensions? I would sure appreciate it.
Added later: I see now that there is a number for the height, but it is too fuzzy (on my monitor at least) to read. Also, I don't know if it is the distance to the floor, or the distance to the bottom of the enclosed area above the horn area. I see a number for "baffle" something, but it's too fuzzy also.
Soo... Could you post all the internal dimensions? I would sure appreciate it.
I have build, fairly recently, a pair of Jim Griffiths ported designs. Small bookshelf speakers.
I am not too fond of them, quite a booming bass.
I might try this approach to see if these speakers perform better. Do you have any frequencycurves? And do you use any prefiltering like Jordan suggests to highten up the bassresponse?
I am not too fond of them, quite a booming bass.
I might try this approach to see if these speakers perform better. Do you have any frequencycurves? And do you use any prefiltering like Jordan suggests to highten up the bassresponse?
Dave Jones said:
> vent = 2"dia x 5"L
more information here:
http://fullrangedriver.com/tiki-vie..._mode=commentDate_desc&topics_find=&forumId=1
--
Brian
Interesting! I have auditioned JG's originals on several occasions and didn't get this impression, just that they were very rolled off in the LF. Indeed, measurement showed an almost billiard table flat response. Anyway, try tuning them lower or reducing the BSC.
More info, including dims, here:
http://www.fullrangedriver.com/tiki..._mode=commentDate_desc&topics_find=&forumId=1
GM
Details
Straight from GM:
+++++++++++++++++
An ML-TL OTOH yields more cab efficiency, something the low efficiency JX92S needs in spades. I know a couple of folks who are very pleased with this one where Vb = Vas and F3 = Fs (assuming SS driven):
L = 31.04"
width/depth = 6.97"w x 4.31"d
driver down from top = 11.14"
vent = 2"dia x 5"L
stuffing = 0.54lb
Since the driver will be well below ear height when seated, extending the pipe down the appropriate amount to get the driver up leaves a nice sized cavity to mass load the cab with kitty litter/sand/whatever. I also recommend a heavy top to further mass load it, as well as a driver brace, such as this tunable one: http://melhuish.org/audio/images/press-screw.gif
GM
++++++++++++++++++
The bottom of the cabinet - below where the port exits - is adjusted up or down depending on where you want the driver to be relative to your listening position. I believe Jay Fisher builds his cabinets so the driver is at the same height or slightly higher than his ear when sitting in his listening chair. I believe GM mentioned he likes to position his drivers much higher which result in a much taller cabinet..
See the thread referenced above in the Full-Range Driver Forum for a more extensive discussion.
I'll also be happy to answer any questions I can to help out.
Bruce
Straight from GM:
+++++++++++++++++
An ML-TL OTOH yields more cab efficiency, something the low efficiency JX92S needs in spades. I know a couple of folks who are very pleased with this one where Vb = Vas and F3 = Fs (assuming SS driven):
L = 31.04"
width/depth = 6.97"w x 4.31"d
driver down from top = 11.14"
vent = 2"dia x 5"L
stuffing = 0.54lb
Since the driver will be well below ear height when seated, extending the pipe down the appropriate amount to get the driver up leaves a nice sized cavity to mass load the cab with kitty litter/sand/whatever. I also recommend a heavy top to further mass load it, as well as a driver brace, such as this tunable one: http://melhuish.org/audio/images/press-screw.gif
GM
++++++++++++++++++
The bottom of the cabinet - below where the port exits - is adjusted up or down depending on where you want the driver to be relative to your listening position. I believe Jay Fisher builds his cabinets so the driver is at the same height or slightly higher than his ear when sitting in his listening chair. I believe GM mentioned he likes to position his drivers much higher which result in a much taller cabinet..
See the thread referenced above in the Full-Range Driver Forum for a more extensive discussion.
I'll also be happy to answer any questions I can to help out.
Bruce
I've got an MLK worksheet that I was fooling around with. I don't remember if I posted it and someone dumped on the idea, or what. If so, please dump on it again.
Volume is 21 liters (about 33% larger than the design under consideration). It's quite a bit shorter, at 22 inches. The port is 1" radius [sic] by 7" length. Stuffing is only .2 lb/ft^3.
The SPL graph is attached.
Volume is 21 liters (about 33% larger than the design under consideration). It's quite a bit shorter, at 22 inches. The port is 1" radius [sic] by 7" length. Stuffing is only .2 lb/ft^3.
The SPL graph is attached.
Attachments
?? It may need some BSC if the room doesn't compensate enough, but otherwise it is fine, it just has less pipe action due to the shorter length. Not that this is a problem since with a Vb > Vas it will just cause some minor peaking at Fb. The only other issue is a minor increase in exceeding Xmax above Fb.
GM
GM
Internal dimensions?
On to the my second DIY speakers! I'm about to order the drivers! I've been given a big-*&^ table saw and I'm not afraid to use it!
A question, tho - I've simmed these dimensions & checked that they work out, but the cabinet plans posted have the front baffle at 6.97" wide (let's call it 7"). This would give an internal dimension of 5.5" x 4.3" according to the drawings...
So - is the width of the cab 7" or 8.5" (giving 7" internal)?
Thx much
mk
abpea said:
On to the my second DIY speakers! I'm about to order the drivers! I've been given a big-*&^ table saw and I'm not afraid to use it!
A question, tho - I've simmed these dimensions & checked that they work out, but the cabinet plans posted have the front baffle at 6.97" wide (let's call it 7"). This would give an internal dimension of 5.5" x 4.3" according to the drawings...
So - is the width of the cab 7" or 8.5" (giving 7" internal)?
Thx much
mk
All dims are inside (i.d.), as all posted designs should be.
Since we tend to 'see' what we expect to see, I hadn't noticed any possible dwg. discrepancies and this info getting left out of posts after my initial one on the FR forum many moons ago, so I don't know for sure what folks have built. They won't sound as 'full' if they are o.d. and the driver will be slightly misaligned, though I doubt it's audible.
GM
Since we tend to 'see' what we expect to see, I hadn't noticed any possible dwg. discrepancies and this info getting left out of posts after my initial one on the FR forum many moons ago, so I don't know for sure what folks have built. They won't sound as 'full' if they are o.d. and the driver will be slightly misaligned, though I doubt it's audible.
GM
Is there a frequency response graph on the web for these drivers? I can't find one.
BTW, according to MLK's worksheet, it is possible to reduce the pipe cross section and lengthen the pipe some. Just keep the internal volume around Vas or a little over. That introduces a little ripple, but probably not a significant amount.
BTW, according to MLK's worksheet, it is possible to reduce the pipe cross section and lengthen the pipe some. Just keep the internal volume around Vas or a little over. That introduces a little ripple, but probably not a significant amount.
Another way to use Jordans
I use a pair of the Jordans you mention in my project studio as countertop nearfield monitors and think they are about the best speakers I have ever heard - no kidding. I mounted them in the smallest closed cube enclosure from Ted's web site and run them with a pair of Peerless 8" subs also in closed cabs about 12" square face and 14" deep. I use 2 amps and an active crossover at 110 hz. The Jordans sit on top of the subs which are on low stands about 4" high. This way I can get the cones of the speaker pairs precisely alligned (it makes an audible difference - also I'm not a fan of ported speakers many of which seem to me not to be very flat). I used a test tone generator extensively on my room and used it to set the rolloff profile on the crossover. You can get modules to change the crossover frequency if you like but my room has a mode at 110 so that point works well. I tried the Jordans in one of his bookshelf style ported boxes at first and didn't like it real well. This setup is amazing though. IMO the best thing about the Jordans is not the low end of their "full range" capabilities, but the fact that they transition smoothly from low mid through hi mid and right on up without crossover. I hear almost all 2.5k typical crossovers as gritty and nasty - couldn't stand typical studio nearfields. The Jordan's image incredibly well and get away from the problem (most sensitive part of your hearing) hi-mid crossover area. Regarding bass - the stereo subs are fantastic - no stereo imaging issues you can get with a single sub, reasonably space friendly and responsive even at subsonic frequencies (you can feel them below 20hz even though you can't hear them - like the 32 ft organ pedal pipes in Holst's Planets #5). Also, getting the low end out of the Jordans, where they really don't excel, does them a big favor to my ear by removing slower vibrations that can screw up higher sounds. Also, if you want good imaging, flat low end makes a huge difference. I played around with this setup for about 3 years before I got it where I like it, but am very pleased with its response and quality now. Very honest, and very musical. BTW I have used spectroanalysis and EQ quite alot on my system/room and messed with traps and such - nothing did nearly as much as getting my speakers sorted out. The Peerless 8" subs are cheap and quite amazing for a sub of any size - not big powerhandlers but quite capable at reasonable levels (I monitor at moderate levels in the near field).
I use a pair of the Jordans you mention in my project studio as countertop nearfield monitors and think they are about the best speakers I have ever heard - no kidding. I mounted them in the smallest closed cube enclosure from Ted's web site and run them with a pair of Peerless 8" subs also in closed cabs about 12" square face and 14" deep. I use 2 amps and an active crossover at 110 hz. The Jordans sit on top of the subs which are on low stands about 4" high. This way I can get the cones of the speaker pairs precisely alligned (it makes an audible difference - also I'm not a fan of ported speakers many of which seem to me not to be very flat). I used a test tone generator extensively on my room and used it to set the rolloff profile on the crossover. You can get modules to change the crossover frequency if you like but my room has a mode at 110 so that point works well. I tried the Jordans in one of his bookshelf style ported boxes at first and didn't like it real well. This setup is amazing though. IMO the best thing about the Jordans is not the low end of their "full range" capabilities, but the fact that they transition smoothly from low mid through hi mid and right on up without crossover. I hear almost all 2.5k typical crossovers as gritty and nasty - couldn't stand typical studio nearfields. The Jordan's image incredibly well and get away from the problem (most sensitive part of your hearing) hi-mid crossover area. Regarding bass - the stereo subs are fantastic - no stereo imaging issues you can get with a single sub, reasonably space friendly and responsive even at subsonic frequencies (you can feel them below 20hz even though you can't hear them - like the 32 ft organ pedal pipes in Holst's Planets #5). Also, getting the low end out of the Jordans, where they really don't excel, does them a big favor to my ear by removing slower vibrations that can screw up higher sounds. Also, if you want good imaging, flat low end makes a huge difference. I played around with this setup for about 3 years before I got it where I like it, but am very pleased with its response and quality now. Very honest, and very musical. BTW I have used spectroanalysis and EQ quite alot on my system/room and messed with traps and such - nothing did nearly as much as getting my speakers sorted out. The Peerless 8" subs are cheap and quite amazing for a sub of any size - not big powerhandlers but quite capable at reasonable levels (I monitor at moderate levels in the near field).
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