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Old 10th May 2004, 09:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timn8ter
If you're looking for very high SPLs then you should consider another driver, however, if you're looking to drive them at normal listening levels they can handle it ok. I use TBs in my HT with a 100W per channel SS receiver and haven't blown one up yet. If you put two drivers per enclosure you should be fine.
I think I will definitely have to go for the two-to-a-cabinet approach so that I can squeeze a bit more range out of them. Also, it's not like the drivers will break the bank to muck around with anyway.

From there, if I'm able to build decent-sounding speakers on my own for the office, my wife will allow me to build all the speakers for our surround sound setup at home (since she'd prefer to just drop the cash on ready-made "safe" speakers).

I can sympathize with her attitude right now, since most people just don't think you can reproduce the sound of a "good" (read: expensive) speaker on your own. Also, I've only just recently built things on my own (gainclone) that actually work "as advertised".

I've got a bunch of birch veneer plywood, a fully-functional wood shop, and a small amount of cash to spend on building a set to prove 'em all wrong.
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Old 10th May 2004, 09:35 PM   #12
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Power rating for the 1197 is rated at 4W for what it is worth. So 2 is going to be 8W. I regularily use mine with 100W and have never smoked any. Power rating is really an overrated & misunderstood specification. I usually just ignore it.

dave
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Old 10th May 2004, 10:15 PM   #13
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True, true. For an in depth discusson on Watts = Quality see
Watts = Quality?
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Old 10th May 2004, 11:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


The wooden pipes with the FE103As now house tweaked 1197s
....
built. One day i had the red pipes in the car (just painted mdf),

Eficeincy i stimate in about 91 db, a 4.5 W EL84 SEP starts running out of steam at high levels (in my large room) but is superb for normal listing levels. Recent indications are that series wiring may be better sonically than parallel.

dave
Thanks for the info, but I still have a few more questions...

Sticking with the pipes (wooden and red), do you have drawing with measurements for them? Do you use a filter or anything on the 40-1197 drivers? How are they connected, series or parallell and are they in phase?

The prototype drawing you posted has several similarities for the AllegraAudio BV-1 (minus the taper). What is the benefit of placing the drivers back to back? Also, do you hook them up in phase? Is the horizontal location of the driver critical? I would prefer to have it a sitting ear level.

Is more information regarding the 40-1197 not available (i.e. freq. responce curves, Re .....)

Cheers
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Old 10th May 2004, 11:29 PM   #15
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Link to some 40-1197 parameters
http://f18.parsimony.net/forum31999/messages/19030.htm

There have been a few different production runs so YMMV.
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Old 10th May 2004, 11:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmilitano
Sticking with the pipes (wooden and red), do you have drawing with measurements for them? Do you use a filter or anything on the 40-1197 drivers? How are they connected, series or parallell and are they in phase?

The prototype drawing you posted has several similarities for the AllegraAudio BV-1 (minus the taper). What is the benefit of placing the drivers back to back? Also, do you hook them up in phase? Is the horizontal location of the driver critical? I would prefer to have it a sitting ear level.

Is more information regarding the 40-1197 not available (i.e. freq. responce curves, Re .....)
BD-Pipes plans
http://pmillett.addr.com/tqwp.htm

Drivers connected in parallel or series & in phase (i am starting to get some feedback that, particularily with tube amps, 16 ohms makes a biggere difference than i would have guessed -- i have yet to experiment).

No filters, just "mechanical" tweaks. Ductseal, puzzlecoat, woolfelt, dustcapectomy, phase plugs... the ductseal is a required tweak.

The ptototype is probably similar to Tim's pipes because, he says, he has been inpired by my preaching

Back-to-back makes them CRT friendly and gives optimal push-push coupling (inproved downward dynamic range, reduced transmission of energy to the box). In phase. Driver distance from the end of the pipes is critical. Ajust height by changing the length of the "legs (everything below the port is purly to get the driver up to the right height).

dave
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Old 11th May 2004, 03:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


BD-Pipes plans
http://pmillett.addr.com/tqwp.htm

On that link, it shows a filter, but it is labelled FE103, should I be using that with the 1197? I would be interested in adding a tweeter to this design. Would this be an improvement on the high end? Going along on with your original post, I would be looking at a first order high pass of about 10 kHz. Furthermore, the 40-1030 does not seem to be available anymore would the 10CM (4") WOOFER 40-1022 be an appropriate replacement?

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10

The ptototype is probably similar to Tim's pipes because, he says, he has been inpired by my preaching

Back-to-back makes them CRT friendly and gives optimal push-push coupling (inproved downward dynamic range, reduced transmission of energy to the box). In phase.
I like this design too. Do I need to experiment with insultation? I believe Tim insulated the upper portion of his. If I was to add a tweeter, does it need to be isolated from the inside of the box?

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10

Driver distance from the end of the pipes is critical. Ajust height by changing the length of the "legs (everything below the port is purly to get the driver up to the right height).
Obviously! I dunno what I was thinking?


Ok, with regards to the numbers, the link Tim gave showed an efficiency of about 90.5 db. By using two drivers, what would be the net efficency? I imagine I would need to know this to pick an appropriate tweeter.

I think it is clear that the low end of the 1197 is about 80Hz. How much is this value lowered by the enclosure or by the back to back setup. What I am asking is what would be the estimated frequency responce and would a subwoofer be required.

Cheers,
GM.
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Old 11th May 2004, 05:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmilitano
On that link, it shows a filter, but it is labelled FE103, should I be using that with the 1197?
There is an optional filter, i like the speaker better without it.


Quote:
I would be interested in adding a tweeter to this design. Would this be an improvement on the high end? Going along on with your original post, I would be looking at a first order high pass of about 10 kHz.
The 1197 isn't as extended as the 103/103A/108. The speaker sounds OK without, but you really notice it is missing if you remove it.

Here is a tweeter i've found to work particularily well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3096034842

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Furthermore, the 40-1030 does not seem to be available anymore would the 10CM (4") WOOFER 40-1022 be an appropriate replacement?
I've only used the same speaker as in the front, i think the 1022 is a bit down efficieny-wise -- i'd just use 2 1197s per box.

Quote:
I like this design too. Do I need to experiment with insultation? I believe Tim insulated the upper portion of his. If I was to add a tweeter, does it need to be isolated from the inside of the box?
No... the designated amount of stuffing just fit into the box.


Quote:
Ok, with regards to the numbers, the link Tim gave showed an efficiency of about 90.5 db. By using two drivers, what would be the net efficency? I imagine I would need to know this to pick an appropriate tweeter.
Tim's uses 2 drivers 90.5-91 dB is about right.

Quote:
I think it is clear that the low end of the 1197 is about 80Hz. How much is this value lowered by the enclosure or by the back to back setup. What I am asking is what would be the estimated frequency responce and would a subwoofer be required.
Listen to them, if you want subteranean bass you will need woofers (modern day drivers designed for sub use, usually don't have enuff top end to blend well).

dave
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Old 11th May 2004, 11:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


No... the designated amount of stuffing just fit into the box.

Tim's uses 2 drivers 90.5-91 dB is about right.
Thanks for the info Dave.

With regards to the stuffing on the proto-1197-ml-tl, there are no details regarding stuffing.

If the individual drivers are about 90.5 dB, does using two drivers increase the efficiency?

You also mentioned that the height of the enclosure is critical. How is this height determined? Is it based on experimentation, or can software be used to model the enclosure. I have been playing with speaker workshop .. is this approprite or do I need something different?

Thanks,
GM.
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Old 11th May 2004, 11:44 PM   #20
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The old blue box 1197s were of 90db efficiency, the newer ones are less. Two drivers in parallel are usually calculated as having a +6db increase.
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