Use the plans for the Coral Beta 10 cabinets as given in the East Marine website.. The 5-port BR cabinets works very well with the Coral Flat 10, Beta 10 and the quite rare Coral Alpha 10s as well...
Do note the highs on the Flat 10 are not as extended as the Beta 10... so you'll probably need to add a super tweeter..
See this report of one of our earlier Singapore Noising Diy gathering...
Singapore NoiSING 2005 DIY Audio Gathering Show Report
Scroll down a bit... you can see the Flat 10 in that 5-port BR port.. we had very good results with the Flat 10 with the ESS AMT super tweeter on top...
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Thanks BTW.
I love the photos of the noiSING fest held in Singapore. Thanks for the lead. Gosh the quality of DIY work is fantastic. I dream of being part of a group like that where I can learn and try ideas and then have a big display night! Most of the time DIY audio is done in isolation...apart from this great site.
Kind Regards: Dave
I love the photos of the noiSING fest held in Singapore. Thanks for the lead. Gosh the quality of DIY work is fantastic. I dream of being part of a group like that where I can learn and try ideas and then have a big display night! Most of the time DIY audio is done in isolation...apart from this great site.
Kind Regards: Dave
Hi Dave,
Thanks for you kind comments... Yes, we have some very good Diyers here in Singapore..
If you need more help/information on the Corals drivers etc... You can email me... I used to collect Coral drivers and spent quite a bit of time and effort on these drivers...
I Second using Heils
I presently use the Sachiko cabinets which I absolutely love. I tried using the both the FE206E and then later upgraded to the FE206ES-R drivers. However as good as both were and they were very good indeed. I knew I could do better. After a lot of searching I located a pair of Fostex's very rare ---{only 250 pairs worldwide}--- and very expensive FE208ES-R drivers.
The FE208ES-R due to it's large alnico motor roll off rapidly from 100Hz & lower in the Sachikos. However from 100Hz - 7KHz the quality of music replication is reference standard. Honestly being as good or better than anything I've ever heard anywhere! I decided to work on extending the high frequencies first as it was the easier task of the two.
Like the poster I'm responding to suggested, I did this by added a pair of large Heil dipoles, which now ---{after days of trying various capacitor types & crossover slopes}--- seamlessly extend the FE208ES-R drivers out to 25KHz+. I cannot stress taking the time, which may be days like it was with me, to find the correct caps that don't allow any stridency in the highend frequencies. I'm using very large Sprague PIOs & Russian K75-10 PIOs rated @ 250V in parallel. The Heils are capable of matching the Fostex in speed and transparency. I personally like them better than any horns I've heard.
Now from 100Hz -- 25KHz I have what I consider to be reference quality and what my friends from Centreal Florida Audio Society, SETriodes Group & Space Coast Audio Society call world-class musical replication! Now I just need to build a pair of tapped horns to cover as much as 20 -- 100Hz as I can get and I'm finally done...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
I presently use the Sachiko cabinets which I absolutely love. I tried using the both the FE206E and then later upgraded to the FE206ES-R drivers. However as good as both were and they were very good indeed. I knew I could do better. After a lot of searching I located a pair of Fostex's very rare ---{only 250 pairs worldwide}--- and very expensive FE208ES-R drivers.
The FE208ES-R due to it's large alnico motor roll off rapidly from 100Hz & lower in the Sachikos. However from 100Hz - 7KHz the quality of music replication is reference standard. Honestly being as good or better than anything I've ever heard anywhere! I decided to work on extending the high frequencies first as it was the easier task of the two.
Like the poster I'm responding to suggested, I did this by added a pair of large Heil dipoles, which now ---{after days of trying various capacitor types & crossover slopes}--- seamlessly extend the FE208ES-R drivers out to 25KHz+. I cannot stress taking the time, which may be days like it was with me, to find the correct caps that don't allow any stridency in the highend frequencies. I'm using very large Sprague PIOs & Russian K75-10 PIOs rated @ 250V in parallel. The Heils are capable of matching the Fostex in speed and transparency. I personally like them better than any horns I've heard.
Now from 100Hz -- 25KHz I have what I consider to be reference quality and what my friends from Centreal Florida Audio Society, SETriodes Group & Space Coast Audio Society call world-class musical replication! Now I just need to build a pair of tapped horns to cover as much as 20 -- 100Hz as I can get and I'm finally done...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Hi Tom,
Yes, the ESS AMTs are one of the nicest super tweeters you can add on to your fullranger... IMHO it's dipole nature gives it a very airy nature.. We've also tried a couple of JBL compression drivers.. a bit more tricky to integrate with the Corals.. but we finally got very nice results with the JBL compression drivers mounted with the JBL Hartsfield compression driver diffuser Lens.... I also recently heard the Top of the line Fostex Alnico super tweeters.. I think these are also very nice super tweeters for fullrangers.
Isn't that a bit of a stretch? Didn't you end up with Clark's after i suggested he might part with his pair?
(less than 24 hrs between you announcing you had killed your 206eSR and i suggested Clark)
dave
Dave,
You're 100% correct and I did get Clark's FE208ES-R drivers, but I had been looking for a pair for sometime before I killed my FE206ES-R drivers. It was only after killing my FE206ES-Rs ---{that I also really liked}--- that I now had such urgency in finding a pair of FE208ES-R drivers and hence starting asking everywhere ---{as opposed to just perusing the Japanese auctions sites as I had previously}--- about where I might find a pair of FE208ES-R drivers.
I do believe that once you told be about Clark's pair that within 48 hrs Clark & I entered into the negotiations that led to my owning my present pair of FE208ES-R drivers about 2 weeks later! Sorry if there was a misunderstanding...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Sachiko Reference I
Hey Dave!
I heard you met my friend Karl recently and gave him a tour of your facility. That was very kind of you. SuperMads would be a great name, but I've stopped refering to them as Madisons and now tell people they're Sachiko cabinets custom made for me by Cardersound. I did that for two reasons:
I consider them to be the Sachiko Reference I. Which were only made available through the help of yourself, for telling me where I could finally find a pair of FE208ES-R drivers. Clark for selling me those FE208ES-R drivers & Scottmoose for assuring me that, while using the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachiko cabinets, as opposed to the FE206E or FE206ES-R, would produce a vastly limited frequency spectrum due to their large motor ---{which turned out to be approx 100Hz to 7KHz}--- it would be at an extremely accurate level of musical replication.
Scottmoose, was of course correct and I till cannot believe the quality of musical replications the Sachiko/FE208ES-R/Heils are capable of. I have to keep wiping a stupid grin off my face everytime I listen to them. Sometimes I just cannot believe these are my speakers. With the addition of the large, dipole Heils ---{something I wasn't sure would work due to the dissimilar radiation patterns of the Sachiko/FE208ES-R and the dipole Heils, but it works extremely well}--- the frequency response it incredibly lifelike from 100Hz to 25Khz+.
In these next coming weeks I'll be having some friends over to help with adding different subs ---{I believe we're starting with 15" OBs}--- to try and cover as much as we can get from 20Hz to 100Hz. The goal is to as accurately and seamlessly as possible, try different subs that mate wll at 100Hz and then add as much as we can below that frequency without damaging the quality of reproduction I presently have. I realize this will be no small task.
Unfortunately, the difficulties will be compounded due to health reasons on my part that have nothing to do with my disability & require some upcoming exploratory surgery this July. I'll make every effort to keep everyone informed of how things progress with extending the Sachiko Reference I's lowend frequency response, as my health permits! My heartfelt thanks to everyone who helped me get to where my speakers are today. I still cannot believe how in 2 short years my system has lept light years ahead of where it was and it's all because I came across the Frugal-Horn site one day. The rest as they say, is history...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Glad to hear you are enjoying them. Guess you could calll your speakers "SiperMads"
dave
Hey Dave!
I heard you met my friend Karl recently and gave him a tour of your facility. That was very kind of you. SuperMads would be a great name, but I've stopped refering to them as Madisons and now tell people they're Sachiko cabinets custom made for me by Cardersound. I did that for two reasons:
- Maybe I'm mistaken, but it felt like Jeff Carder seemed to want to distance the Sachiko/Madison from the new proprietary Madisons.
- They really stopped being "Madisons" the moment I replaced the drivers in the cabinets & added the large, dipole Heils.
I consider them to be the Sachiko Reference I. Which were only made available through the help of yourself, for telling me where I could finally find a pair of FE208ES-R drivers. Clark for selling me those FE208ES-R drivers & Scottmoose for assuring me that, while using the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachiko cabinets, as opposed to the FE206E or FE206ES-R, would produce a vastly limited frequency spectrum due to their large motor ---{which turned out to be approx 100Hz to 7KHz}--- it would be at an extremely accurate level of musical replication.
Scottmoose, was of course correct and I till cannot believe the quality of musical replications the Sachiko/FE208ES-R/Heils are capable of. I have to keep wiping a stupid grin off my face everytime I listen to them. Sometimes I just cannot believe these are my speakers. With the addition of the large, dipole Heils ---{something I wasn't sure would work due to the dissimilar radiation patterns of the Sachiko/FE208ES-R and the dipole Heils, but it works extremely well}--- the frequency response it incredibly lifelike from 100Hz to 25Khz+.
In these next coming weeks I'll be having some friends over to help with adding different subs ---{I believe we're starting with 15" OBs}--- to try and cover as much as we can get from 20Hz to 100Hz. The goal is to as accurately and seamlessly as possible, try different subs that mate wll at 100Hz and then add as much as we can below that frequency without damaging the quality of reproduction I presently have. I realize this will be no small task.
Unfortunately, the difficulties will be compounded due to health reasons on my part that have nothing to do with my disability & require some upcoming exploratory surgery this July. I'll make every effort to keep everyone informed of how things progress with extending the Sachiko Reference I's lowend frequency response, as my health permits! My heartfelt thanks to everyone who helped me get to where my speakers are today. I still cannot believe how in 2 short years my system has lept light years ahead of where it was and it's all because I came across the Frugal-Horn site one day. The rest as they say, is history...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
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Indeed the whole family came up the mountain... it was good to have them visit.
dave
Karl commented in the SETriodes forum how he visited Dave Dlugos at Planet 10 outside of Victoria with his wife and two kids. He felt you are very nice and commented about you allowing them to hear one of your Fostex drivers that were treated with the EnABLE treatment in two of Ron's Horn speakers. Karl even commented on how surprised he was to hear the amount of bass that those speakers could produce. He also mentioned that he saw some of your old designs for flat-pac horns and how he saw your assembly line for treatments & phase plugs for the drivers, which he felt was really interesting. At the SETriodes forum I discovered Karl had a hearing problem and at that time was desperately looking for a speaker that had dynamics, inner resolution and was as much of a pleasure to listen to at low volumes as it was at loud volumes.
So I told him about my Sachikos and how hooked I was on them ---{which his wife at first said no to, but after I sent him a picture of mine in Rosewood and told him to tell his wife they only take up 13" x 18" of floorspace, she said ok}--- once I gace Karl a link to the Frugal Horn website he went all out! I don't know the exact order but he bought a pair of FE206ES-R drivers, found cabinet maker to get his Sachiko's custom made, had Mike Rispoli give his FE206ES-R drivers for his proprietary 7-step treatment and bought a Mr Liang, 845-based, SET integrated amp! In one step the big swoop Karl went from mid-fi to highend audio, even with the wires!
I just wanted you to know how much I really appreciate your being so nice to Karl, Dave. It's wonderful that he's getting nothing but good advice and treatment from the people he meets such as yourself. Heck it was just a little over two short years ago now, that I can across the Frugal-Horn website and ended up having CarderSound custom build my Sachikos. It was that same friendly attitude on your part, Scottmoose and others I spoke with that sealed the deal for me as well....
You guys are making converts one audiophile at a time without even trying to. Once again thanks from the bottom of my heart...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
about how welcome you made him feel, how knowledgeable you are,
It was sure nice to see the smiles on the faces of the entire family (sons are talented musicians, the family was up for the grad of a family member from UVic's music dept). I got the feeling that they had not been exposed to a truly musical hifi system before. They are in for a treat once his new system is assembled.
Karl expressed a desire to try to make it up for diyFEST, but with knee surgery so soon before he shouldn't push it.
dave
Karl expressed a desire to try to make it up for diyFEST, but with knee surgery so soon before he shouldn't push it.
dave
Yes You'll Bass, But You'll Gain So Much More Than You Lose!
Hello Pengesluk!
Scottmoose is 100% correct you'll get much less bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos. After replacing the FE206E drivers with a FE206ES-R drivers and eventually the FE206ES-R drivers with FE208ES-R drivers here's both my subjective & measured findings.
After I listened for awhile I believed the Sachiko/FE208ES-R combo provided the best sound I'd ever heard from 100Hz to 8KHz, but felt it wasn't a fair comparison because as good as the music sounded, with no information above 8Khz it still sounded lifeless compared to the FE206ES-R which had better extention on both extremes. To that end I needed to fill in above 8Khz and that was accomplished wonderfully by adding a pair of large, Heil, dipole, tweeters. I now was hearing the best music I'd ever heard in my home or elsewhere from 100Hz to 25KHz. In fact except for the FE206ES-R having better bass extention, the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils was just better all around. There's even more treble extention and it had a delicacy & air to it that was simply amazing! As hard as it was to believe inner resolution had dramtically increased, dynamics & transient response was of a caliber I'd never heard ---{except of course in all horn speakers i.e., Klipsch, Altec, JBL etc. which always screech at me and I could never live with}--- I was now capable of hitting up to 110dB peaks with absolutle no distress!!!! Yes the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils literally stomped the the FE206ES-R drivers performance, the way the FE206ES-R had previously stomped the FE206E hands down!
This was TOO good and I had to have confirmation of what I was hearing. To do that I had many of the same group of members from the Central Florida Audio Society, the SETriodes Group & the Space Coast Audio Society who originally came over to compare the sonic differences between the FE206E and the FE206ES-R drivers came back over so they could now hear the sonic difference between the FE206ES-R and the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos. The consensus? I was hearing comments of World-Class and Reference quality. Yes they all noticed the system is lacking below 100Hz, but as one member said "Damn when 100Hz sounds this good, you don't really miss what's not there!" Another person sat up after I played the song Aja on the CD Aja by Steely Dan and said "I've owned this recording since it was first released on LP. I've heard it on numerous TTs and CDPs and I've just heard things on the CD I've never heard before!"
Will you lose some bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos, well Scottmoose the designer said yes and from actually installing a pair of the FE208ES-R drivers in my Sachikos I can tell you for a fact that the bass rolls off like such: at 80Hz I was down 3dB. Then from 63Hz to 50Hz it went down to 6dB, and finally by 40Hz I was down a full 12dB in my room that's 15.5ft x 12.5ft with a ceiling that slopes from 8ft to 10ft! That said from 100Hz - 25Khz+ the Sachiko/FE208ES-R/Heil or Sachiko Reference I as I now call them are untouchable by anything that I can think up to $30K and maybe more. I'm now working on integrating a subwoofer from 20Hz -100Hz or as much of that frequency spectrum as I can achieve. The goal is to blend seamlessly @ 100Hz and then keep going down until adding more low frequency response starts becoming detrimental to the quality of sound that I already have. That's when I'll stop!
If you want a set of speakers that has the clairty, transparency and inner resolution of a Ribbon or Electrostatic and can play as loud as a horn, put those FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos and add a fast tweeter like the large Heils!
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Hello Pengesluk!
Scottmoose is 100% correct you'll get much less bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos. After replacing the FE206E drivers with a FE206ES-R drivers and eventually the FE206ES-R drivers with FE208ES-R drivers here's both my subjective & measured findings.
- Replacing the FE206E drivers with the FE206ES-R in my Sachikos resulted in a drastic sonic improvement. When I had members of the Central Florida Audio Society, the SETriodes Group & the Space Coast Audio Society over to hear the difference so I could some other opinions, the consensus was that there may have been one small area in the mid-bass where the FE206E excelled sonically, but in every other area such as treble & bass extention, bass slam, treble delicacy & air, inner resolution, dynamics & transient response the FE206ES-R literally stomped the FE206E's performance, hands down!
- Replacing the FE206ES-R with the FE208ES-R drivers is a similar and yet different story at the same time! I think that whether or not you'll agree with my assessment that it's a GIGANTIC sonic improvement will depend on your view of things. First off there are differences in the types of drivers being used. The FE208ES-R drivers don't have a whizzer, so you'll immediately lose all of the problems/colorations that are associated with whizzers. In addition to that the FE208ES-R drivers are "wide-range" as opposed to being "full-range" like the FE206ES-R drivers are. What that means is when the FE208ES-R drivers are used in the Sachikos their true usable response is only from 100Hz to 8KHz! So if you're a die-hard single, "full-range" driver person the FE208ES-R drivers won't cut it for you. However if you're like me and don't let that loss of frequency extention on both extremes scare you away, you'll discover the FE208ES-R drivers are even that much more of a drastic sonic improvement over the FE206ES-R drivers in their 100Hz - 8KHz frequency spectrum, then the FE206ES-R was over the FE206E!
After I listened for awhile I believed the Sachiko/FE208ES-R combo provided the best sound I'd ever heard from 100Hz to 8KHz, but felt it wasn't a fair comparison because as good as the music sounded, with no information above 8Khz it still sounded lifeless compared to the FE206ES-R which had better extention on both extremes. To that end I needed to fill in above 8Khz and that was accomplished wonderfully by adding a pair of large, Heil, dipole, tweeters. I now was hearing the best music I'd ever heard in my home or elsewhere from 100Hz to 25KHz. In fact except for the FE206ES-R having better bass extention, the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils was just better all around. There's even more treble extention and it had a delicacy & air to it that was simply amazing! As hard as it was to believe inner resolution had dramtically increased, dynamics & transient response was of a caliber I'd never heard ---{except of course in all horn speakers i.e., Klipsch, Altec, JBL etc. which always screech at me and I could never live with}--- I was now capable of hitting up to 110dB peaks with absolutle no distress!!!! Yes the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils literally stomped the the FE206ES-R drivers performance, the way the FE206ES-R had previously stomped the FE206E hands down!
This was TOO good and I had to have confirmation of what I was hearing. To do that I had many of the same group of members from the Central Florida Audio Society, the SETriodes Group & the Space Coast Audio Society who originally came over to compare the sonic differences between the FE206E and the FE206ES-R drivers came back over so they could now hear the sonic difference between the FE206ES-R and the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos. The consensus? I was hearing comments of World-Class and Reference quality. Yes they all noticed the system is lacking below 100Hz, but as one member said "Damn when 100Hz sounds this good, you don't really miss what's not there!" Another person sat up after I played the song Aja on the CD Aja by Steely Dan and said "I've owned this recording since it was first released on LP. I've heard it on numerous TTs and CDPs and I've just heard things on the CD I've never heard before!"
Will you lose some bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos, well Scottmoose the designer said yes and from actually installing a pair of the FE208ES-R drivers in my Sachikos I can tell you for a fact that the bass rolls off like such: at 80Hz I was down 3dB. Then from 63Hz to 50Hz it went down to 6dB, and finally by 40Hz I was down a full 12dB in my room that's 15.5ft x 12.5ft with a ceiling that slopes from 8ft to 10ft! That said from 100Hz - 25Khz+ the Sachiko/FE208ES-R/Heil or Sachiko Reference I as I now call them
are untouchable by anything that I can think up to $30K and maybe more. I'm now working on integrating a subwoofer from 20Hz -100Hz or as much of that frequency spectrum as I can achieve. The goal is to blend seamlessly @ 100Hz and then keep going down until adding more low frequency response starts becoming detrimental to the quality of sound that I already have. That's when I'll stop!If you want a set of speakers that has the clairty, transparency and inner resolution of a Ribbon or Electrostatic and can play as loud as a horn, put those FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos and add a fast tweeter like the large Heils!
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
For anyone in Australia theres a pair of these for sale here
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
they are a little dirty though
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
they are a little dirty though
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