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Old 24th June 2010, 09:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetubeguy1954 View Post

I heard you met my friend Karl recently and gave him a tour of your facility.
Indeed the whole family came up the mountain... it was good to have them visit.

dave
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Old 24th June 2010, 10:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Indeed the whole family came up the mountain... it was good to have them visit.

dave
Karl commented in the SETriodes forum how he visited Dave Dlugos at Planet 10 outside of Victoria with his wife and two kids. He felt you are very nice and commented about you allowing them to hear one of your Fostex drivers that were treated with the EnABLE treatment in two of Ron's Horn speakers. Karl even commented on how surprised he was to hear the amount of bass that those speakers could produce. He also mentioned that he saw some of your old designs for flat-pac horns and how he saw your assembly line for treatments & phase plugs for the drivers, which he felt was really interesting. At the SETriodes forum I discovered Karl had a hearing problem and at that time was desperately looking for a speaker that had dynamics, inner resolution and was as much of a pleasure to listen to at low volumes as it was at loud volumes.

So I told him about my Sachikos and how hooked I was on them ---{which his wife at first said no to, but after I sent him a picture of mine in Rosewood and told him to tell his wife they only take up 13" x 18" of floorspace, she said ok}--- once I gace Karl a link to the Frugal Horn website he went all out! I don't know the exact order but he bought a pair of FE206ES-R drivers, found cabinet maker to get his Sachiko's custom made, had Mike Rispoli give his FE206ES-R drivers for his proprietary 7-step treatment and bought a Mr Liang, 845-based, SET integrated amp! In one step the big swoop Karl went from mid-fi to highend audio, even with the wires!

I just wanted you to know how much I really appreciate your being so nice to Karl, Dave. It's wonderful that he's getting nothing but good advice and treatment from the people he meets such as yourself. Heck it was just a little over two short years ago now, that I can across the Frugal-Horn website and ended up having CarderSound custom build my Sachikos. It was that same friendly attitude on your part, Scottmoose and others I spoke with that sealed the deal for me as well....

You guys are making converts one audiophile at a time without even trying to. Once again thanks from the bottom of my heart...

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)






about how welcome you made him feel, how knowledgeable you are,
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Old 25th June 2010, 01:04 AM   #33
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It was sure nice to see the smiles on the faces of the entire family (sons are talented musicians, the family was up for the grad of a family member from UVic's music dept). I got the feeling that they had not been exposed to a truly musical hifi system before. They are in for a treat once his new system is assembled.

Karl expressed a desire to try to make it up for diyFEST, but with knee surgery so soon before he shouldn't push it.

dave
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Old 30th June 2010, 02:45 PM   #34
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Someone please set me straight here:

Will I get less bass in a Sachiko cabinet if I use my 208ES-R instead of 206ES-R??

Jan
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Old 1st July 2010, 08:58 AM   #35
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Old 1st July 2010, 06:12 PM   #36
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Smile Yes You'll Bass, But You'll Gain So Much More Than You Lose!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pengesluk View Post
Someone please set me straight here:

Will I get less bass in a Sachiko cabinet if I use my 208ES-R instead of 206ES-R??

Jan
Hello Pengesluk!


Scottmoose is 100% correct you'll get much less bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos. After replacing the FE206E drivers with a FE206ES-R drivers and eventually the FE206ES-R drivers with FE208ES-R drivers here's both my subjective & measured findings.
  • Replacing the FE206E drivers with the FE206ES-R in my Sachikos resulted in a drastic sonic improvement. When I had members of the Central Florida Audio Society, the SETriodes Group & the Space Coast Audio Society over to hear the difference so I could some other opinions, the consensus was that there may have been one small area in the mid-bass where the FE206E excelled sonically, but in every other area such as treble & bass extention, bass slam, treble delicacy & air, inner resolution, dynamics & transient response the FE206ES-R literally stomped the FE206E's performance, hands down!

  • Replacing the FE206ES-R with the FE208ES-R drivers is a similar and yet different story at the same time! I think that whether or not you'll agree with my assessment that it's a GIGANTIC sonic improvement will depend on your view of things. First off there are differences in the types of drivers being used. The FE208ES-R drivers don't have a whizzer, so you'll immediately lose all of the problems/colorations that are associated with whizzers. In addition to that the FE208ES-R drivers are "wide-range" as opposed to being "full-range" like the FE206ES-R drivers are. What that means is when the FE208ES-R drivers are used in the Sachikos their true usable response is only from 100Hz to 8KHz! So if you're a die-hard single, "full-range" driver person the FE208ES-R drivers won't cut it for you. However if you're like me and don't let that loss of frequency extention on both extremes scare you away, you'll discover the FE208ES-R drivers are even that much more of a drastic sonic improvement over the FE206ES-R drivers in their 100Hz - 8KHz frequency spectrum, then the FE206ES-R was over the FE206E!

After I listened for awhile I believed the Sachiko/FE208ES-R combo provided the best sound I'd ever heard from 100Hz to 8KHz, but felt it wasn't a fair comparison because as good as the music sounded, with no information above 8Khz it still sounded lifeless compared to the FE206ES-R which had better extention on both extremes. To that end I needed to fill in above 8Khz and that was accomplished wonderfully by adding a pair of large, Heil, dipole, tweeters. I now was hearing the best music I'd ever heard in my home or elsewhere from 100Hz to 25KHz. In fact except for the FE206ES-R having better bass extention, the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils was just better all around. There's even more treble extention and it had a delicacy & air to it that was simply amazing! As hard as it was to believe inner resolution had dramtically increased, dynamics & transient response was of a caliber I'd never heard ---{except of course in all horn speakers i.e., Klipsch, Altec, JBL etc. which always screech at me and I could never live with}--- I was now capable of hitting up to 110dB peaks with absolutle no distress!!!! Yes the FE208ES-R drivers with the Heils literally stomped the the FE206ES-R drivers performance, the way the FE206ES-R had previously stomped the FE206E hands down!

This was TOO good and I had to have confirmation of what I was hearing. To do that I had many of the same group of members from the Central Florida Audio Society, the SETriodes Group & the Space Coast Audio Society who originally came over to compare the sonic differences between the FE206E and the FE206ES-R drivers came back over so they could now hear the sonic difference between the FE206ES-R and the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos. The consensus? I was hearing comments of World-Class and Reference quality. Yes they all noticed the system is lacking below 100Hz, but as one member said "Damn when 100Hz sounds this good, you don't really miss what's not there!" Another person sat up after I played the song Aja on the CD Aja by Steely Dan and said "I've owned this recording since it was first released on LP. I've heard it on numerous TTs and CDPs and I've just heard things on the CD I've never heard before!"

Will you lose some bass using the FE208ES-R drivers in the Sachikos, well Scottmoose the designer said yes and from actually installing a pair of the FE208ES-R drivers in my Sachikos I can tell you for a fact that the bass rolls off like such: at 80Hz I was down 3dB. Then from 63Hz to 50Hz it went down to 6dB, and finally by 40Hz I was down a full 12dB in my room that's 15.5ft x 12.5ft with a ceiling that slopes from 8ft to 10ft! That said from 100Hz - 25Khz+ the Sachiko/FE208ES-R/Heil or Sachiko Reference I as I now call them are untouchable by anything that I can think up to $30K and maybe more. I'm now working on integrating a subwoofer from 20Hz -100Hz or as much of that frequency spectrum as I can achieve. The goal is to blend seamlessly @ 100Hz and then keep going down until adding more low frequency response starts becoming detrimental to the quality of sound that I already have. That's when I'll stop!

If you want a set of speakers that has the clairty, transparency and inner resolution of a Ribbon or Electrostatic and can play as loud as a horn, put those FE208ES-R drivers in your Sachikos and add a fast tweeter like the large Heils!


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
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Old 9th July 2010, 10:01 AM   #37
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Thanks guys, for setting things straight!! Very useful info, will act accordingly!
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Old 20th August 2011, 12:47 PM   #38
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For anyone in Australia theres a pair of these for sale here
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

they are a little dirty though
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