Depending on the specific “W” , the smallest and least visible enclosure possible can still be too large 
I tried a single bigazz sub at one point, but found that a pair of smaller units (corner placed) was the best compromise for my situation. Of course, that was several years ago now, and if budget permitted, I’d go for a pair of Rythmik Audio servo drive units - probably the 12” sealed, as I’m habituated to most compact footprint practical.
But wishes aren’t horses, so this beggar will be hoofing the hard way for a while yet.
I tried a single bigazz sub at one point, but found that a pair of smaller units (corner placed) was the best compromise for my situation. Of course, that was several years ago now, and if budget permitted, I’d go for a pair of Rythmik Audio servo drive units - probably the 12” sealed, as I’m habituated to most compact footprint practical.
But wishes aren’t horses, so this beggar will be hoofing the hard way for a while yet.
I've discovered a few tactics for increasing effective WAF of a speaker system. First, it is helpful to state the number of speakers required not as a request, but as a simple fact of life: "This is a room where we watch movies. Movies have surround sound. A modern surround sound system has seven speakers, plus a subwoofer, plus two more speakers on the ceiling. Thus, there will be a total of nine speakers and one subwoofer."
When suggesting something with a low estimated WAF, it is helpful to first suggest at least two things with significantly lower WAF: "I want to build a subwoofer that will double as a coffee table and will be roughly 3'x4'x2' with two 18" drivers." "No." "I want to build an 18' long unfolded transmission line subwoofer in the basement with the driver and the opening protruding through holes in the floor." "Absolutely not." "I want to build a sealed subwoofer about the size of this end table." "Hmm, that might be okay."
In the end, I feel it may sometimes be necessary for one to put one's foot down to establish the minimum necessary size of a speaker, especially a subwoofer. It is now a house rule here that any arrangement of furniture must allow the presence of a 4ft^3 subwoofer box.
When suggesting something with a low estimated WAF, it is helpful to first suggest at least two things with significantly lower WAF: "I want to build a subwoofer that will double as a coffee table and will be roughly 3'x4'x2' with two 18" drivers." "No." "I want to build an 18' long unfolded transmission line subwoofer in the basement with the driver and the opening protruding through holes in the floor." "Absolutely not." "I want to build a sealed subwoofer about the size of this end table." "Hmm, that might be okay."
In the end, I feel it may sometimes be necessary for one to put one's foot down to establish the minimum necessary size of a speaker, especially a subwoofer. It is now a house rule here that any arrangement of furniture must allow the presence of a 4ft^3 subwoofer box.
It's also very important to hear her say: "oh, now I get it, it sounds really good. It made watching this movie much more enjoyable."
My wife is not an avid music listener, but over the course of the last 10 years, I've introduced her to designs that sounded better and better, up to last year, when it was ok to set up a pair of OB sporting a 15" woofer and a 8" FR each!
That would not have been possible 10 years ago!
She does enjoy watching movies at home every weekend. That's helped a bunch.
My wife is not an avid music listener, but over the course of the last 10 years, I've introduced her to designs that sounded better and better, up to last year, when it was ok to set up a pair of OB sporting a 15" woofer and a 8" FR each!
That would not have been possible 10 years ago!
She does enjoy watching movies at home every weekend. That's helped a bunch.
+2^10 - The CC is where most of the dialog is, so whatever you decide is good enough SQ for it, then ideally use it in all channels and if it's not 'full-range', then keep the L/R channels 'small' too and use multiple sub systems as required to get the most optimal positioning/desired blending and not designed based on just LFE channel peak SPL.
If you must scrimp somewhere, the surrounds are apparently quite BW limited in most movies, so a single 'FR' driver should suffice and with all speakers set to 'small', should be pretty well protected.
GM
Greg; I’ve blathered on before - even currently in another thread - that that’s been pretty much the approach with my last several iterations of surround systems. Of course room size is an even more critical factor in the calculus for a multi-channel system, and with moderate listening levels, I’ve been quite happy with mid sized FR drivers for the front row and smaller units for the 4 surround channels which my small-ish space can accommodate.
I noticed that the small MLTL design for the EL70 that I was looking at is dimensionally quite similar to the TABAQ, and a good bit smaller than the Pensil series. Is there a proper Pensil design suitable for the Pluvia 7?
I actually have enough room for a fairly big tower directly under the center of the TV, and there's plenty of wall space for the left and right, so now I'm thinking I might use the little TABAQ-size boxes for the surrounds and do something bigger for the front three channels. So now the question is: for left, center and right, should I go with the small MLTL like the surrounds, a larger MLTL like the Pensil, a BVR like the Derwent, or even a big pipe like the Windmere (yes, I have room for a Windmere standing upright under the center of the TV)? Whatever I build will go on the floor for the center channel and upside down on the wall for the left and right.
I am really impressed by the volume of information and well thought out designs available on this forum and Frugal-phile. I've seldom seen anything like this for my other hobbies.
I actually have enough room for a fairly big tower directly under the center of the TV, and there's plenty of wall space for the left and right, so now I'm thinking I might use the little TABAQ-size boxes for the surrounds and do something bigger for the front three channels. So now the question is: for left, center and right, should I go with the small MLTL like the surrounds, a larger MLTL like the Pensil, a BVR like the Derwent, or even a big pipe like the Windmere (yes, I have room for a Windmere standing upright under the center of the TV)? Whatever I build will go on the floor for the center channel and upside down on the wall for the left and right.
I am really impressed by the volume of information and well thought out designs available on this forum and Frugal-phile. I've seldom seen anything like this for my other hobbies.
Do build the 4" version of the TABAQ if possible. It will give you a bit more oomph in the lower frequencies.
Did you see they also have the TABAQ large, which is for 5" or 6.5" drivers?
Bigger? I recently made a sim that looked very promising, way down low, and good extension above as well.
It wouldn't be cheap, but with the TB W8-1722 (the woofer, not the 1772 FR driver) and crossed to something like the B80 or 10F, it would be a killer system.
Did you see they also have the TABAQ large, which is for 5" or 6.5" drivers?
Bigger? I recently made a sim that looked very promising, way down low, and good extension above as well.
It wouldn't be cheap, but with the TB W8-1722 (the woofer, not the 1772 FR driver) and crossed to something like the B80 or 10F, it would be a killer system.
Attachments
Moreover; For purely movie watching,
What would be the better driver used for surround/Atmos duties? (In terms of extended HF, DDR, details/clarity). Considering that these speakers will be set to SMALL and HPF cut-off at 80-100hz:
Markaudio Pluvia 7 (metal)
Markaudio Alpair 6 (metal)
Markaudio Alpair 5 (metal)
All three drivers are very near in terms of price.
note: I have an Alpair 7, but it is out of the question since it is in a different price point
What would be the better driver used for surround/Atmos duties? (In terms of extended HF, DDR, details/clarity). Considering that these speakers will be set to SMALL and HPF cut-off at 80-100hz:
Markaudio Pluvia 7 (metal)
Markaudio Alpair 6 (metal)
Markaudio Alpair 5 (metal)
All three drivers are very near in terms of price.
note: I have an Alpair 7, but it is out of the question since it is in a different price point
Andy if I may -and at the risk of puffery - while Dave & Scott have between them almost innumerable designs, and I’ve built at least scores of them for proof of concept and bespoke sales, I also have well over a decade of attempting the art of compromise in a multi-channel surround HT system using enclosures from their catalogs. Even though he has a much better acoustic space than either of mine, Dave is still only running a 2.1 system - sometimes even absent the .1 section IINM?
So my point would be that, to reiterate what GM and others have probably stated here and elsewhere, if implementing a discrete front row 3, the center is the most significant channel in terms of resolution - although not necessarily requiring the same full bandwidth as the L&R mains if the system is also used for music only, and in a direct/bypass mode - i.e. a situation in which it would almost certainly be mute. If you’re fortunate enough to not be constrained on size/ footprint across the front row, I’d definitely suggest the same drivers and enclosures for all three, and as any modern surround AVR worthy of the designation would provide bass management control to tailor the surround effects channels - up to, what 9 these days? - to filter whatever LF content might exist to the mono-summed LFE channel, the surround enclosures can be as small as practical for the chosen drivers.
I’m pretty sure I already posted a link to the “Micro-tower home theatre appendix” plans, which while dated now in terms of the CHR70 intended, show the flexibility available with small sealed designs.
RXV - in short, if budget permits, I’d go for the Pluvias.
It is of course way too easy to overthink all of this and get stuck in analysis paralysis.
As always, caveat emptor, YMMV, free advice is worth what you paid for.
So my point would be that, to reiterate what GM and others have probably stated here and elsewhere, if implementing a discrete front row 3, the center is the most significant channel in terms of resolution - although not necessarily requiring the same full bandwidth as the L&R mains if the system is also used for music only, and in a direct/bypass mode - i.e. a situation in which it would almost certainly be mute. If you’re fortunate enough to not be constrained on size/ footprint across the front row, I’d definitely suggest the same drivers and enclosures for all three, and as any modern surround AVR worthy of the designation would provide bass management control to tailor the surround effects channels - up to, what 9 these days? - to filter whatever LF content might exist to the mono-summed LFE channel, the surround enclosures can be as small as practical for the chosen drivers.
I’m pretty sure I already posted a link to the “Micro-tower home theatre appendix” plans, which while dated now in terms of the CHR70 intended, show the flexibility available with small sealed designs.
RXV - in short, if budget permits, I’d go for the Pluvias.
It is of course way too easy to overthink all of this and get stuck in analysis paralysis.
As always, caveat emptor, YMMV, free advice is worth what you paid for.
Chris, it goes up to at least 15 channels these days: center, left, right, side surrounds, rear surrounds, front wides, and front, middle and rear heights. I think I've heard of a rear center, too. With Atmos and DTSx you can theoretically add speakers of dubious benefit ad infinitum. I'm sticking with seven or nine.
I certainly intend to use the same driver and enclosure for the front three channels. If anything I have more space for the center than for the l&r, so I can do three reasonably sized towers. The tall skinny MLTLs are physically a good size and shape for the surrounds so I don't see a down side to using them there. I'll use the same driver for all channels.
So for the front three, Pensil, Derwent or Windmere? I like the idea of the deeper bass extension of the Windmere, but I'm not sure what I'd be giving up (other than size). I have no idea how an MLTL would compare to a BVR.
I certainly intend to use the same driver and enclosure for the front three channels. If anything I have more space for the center than for the l&r, so I can do three reasonably sized towers. The tall skinny MLTLs are physically a good size and shape for the surrounds so I don't see a down side to using them there. I'll use the same driver for all channels.
So for the front three, Pensil, Derwent or Windmere? I like the idea of the deeper bass extension of the Windmere, but I'm not sure what I'd be giving up (other than size). I have no idea how an MLTL would compare to a BVR.
Upon further thought, it would probably be a bit daft to try to get a 4" full range to extend below 50hz when I have a subwoofer, so let's count the Windermere out. What should I expect the difference to be between the Pensil MLTL and the Derwent BVR when placed up against a wall? I've never heard either type of enclosure, and I've seen both described as improvements on bass reflex enclosures, but I haven't found any clues regarding how they compare to each other.
Andy - daft never stopped many a DIYer.
It’s been so long since I listened to a BVR other than the Vampyr - if that qualifies, so it’d be supposition on my part to opine as to the likely differences. FWIW, while I’ve flirted with other designs - that sound great but don’t suit the room decor as well- I’ve been pretty happy with the Pensil design for both A7, and now the A10.3 in my home theatre system for well over 5 years now. If you’ve got the floor space, that’d be my suggestion. But of course, I’m at the twilight of my building “career”
It’s been so long since I listened to a BVR other than the Vampyr - if that qualifies, so it’d be supposition on my part to opine as to the likely differences. FWIW, while I’ve flirted with other designs - that sound great but don’t suit the room decor as well- I’ve been pretty happy with the Pensil design for both A7, and now the A10.3 in my home theatre system for well over 5 years now. If you’ve got the floor space, that’d be my suggestion. But of course, I’m at the twilight of my building “career”
Well, so far I've built two of the small MLTL's that Scott Lindgren designed for the EL70 (the Arro-inspired EL-rro, I guess it's called? It's on the Frugal-phile site), modified with a slot port in the side instead of the round port in the back, with the Pluvia 7 driver. I made the backs removable and have settled on roughly 4oz of fiberglass per speaker in the top 20" of the box. I'm using just the two of them and a small sub with an old integrated amplifier and a cheap DAC at the moment.
I'm extremely impressed with the sound. I'm currently watching Star Wars The Force Awakens; never have I heard a John Williams soundtrack sound this good. Some of the sounds in the movie seem to be somehow coming from a few feet to the left of the left speaker. These are among the best speakers I've heard.
I am definitely going to make at least five more of these. I'm getting a really remarkable deal on a Marantz SR8012 11.2 receiver, so I'll probably also end up making four small sealed boxes for the same driver to put on the ceiling for the Atmos channels.
Thanks for all of your help getting my game plan straight, it's certainly paying off.
I'm extremely impressed with the sound. I'm currently watching Star Wars The Force Awakens; never have I heard a John Williams soundtrack sound this good. Some of the sounds in the movie seem to be somehow coming from a few feet to the left of the left speaker. These are among the best speakers I've heard.
I am definitely going to make at least five more of these. I'm getting a really remarkable deal on a Marantz SR8012 11.2 receiver, so I'll probably also end up making four small sealed boxes for the same driver to put on the ceiling for the Atmos channels.
Thanks for all of your help getting my game plan straight, it's certainly paying off.
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