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Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?
Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:42 AM   #11
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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10F is not 3" (76.2 mm) but 4" (101.6 mm), because its outer diameter is 97.5 mm and effective piston area is Sd=36.3 cm2.

RS100 is not 5.25" but 4", because its outer diameter is 98 mm and effective piston area is Sd=35.3 cm2.

To answer the OP question, 4-ohm version RS100-4 can reach lower than 10F/8424G00
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:42 AM   #12
FirstOff is offline FirstOff  Malaysia
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The Dayton RS100 as well is really only a 3". Including the frame it's a 4", but the effective piston area is the one that interacts with the box, not the frame size. The RS100 has a similar Sd to a FaitalPro 3FE25 (listed as a 3").

The Sd of many 4" drivers are around 50sq.cm, even those with phase plugs.

Last edited by FirstOff; 15th March 2018 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:49 AM   #13
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonce View Post
RS100 is not 5.25" but 4", because its outer diameter is 98 mm and effective piston area is Sd=35.3 cm2.
Yes. but it will need a 5.25” PR.

Quote:
4-ohm version RS100-4 can reach lower than 10F/8424G00
That isn’t much of a contest… that 10F is really a midrange, it struggles to get below 130-140 Hz. But it does fit into a really small box.

The OPs question was best FR...

dave
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:35 AM   #14
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstOff View Post
The Dayton RS100 as well is really only a 3". Including the frame it's a 4", but the effective piston area is the one that interacts with the box, not the frame size. The RS100 has a similar Sd to a FaitalPro 3FE25 (listed as a 3").

The Sd of many 4" drivers are around 50sq.cm, even those with phase plugs.
So, the nitpicking contest is on.
Some drivers have smaller cone diameter in the same frame size, others have heavily truncated frame with the same cone diameter.
Nominal diameter of a driver is simply the frame size. 4" driver has a 4" frame. Period.

Effective piston area is not the only one which is interacting with the internal box volume, Xmax is important as well. Product of Sd and Xmax is max volume displacement Vd, which is the king.
3FE25 has Sd=30.2 cm2 and Xmax=1.83 mm, so max volume displacement is Vd=5.53 cm3.
RS100 has Sd=35.3 cm2 and Xmax=4 mm, so Vd = 14.1 cm3, which is more than 2.5 times bigger than 3FE25.

Dayton RS100 frame size is round 4". For an example, Vifa TC9 has truncated frame which is listed as 3.5" and has almost the same cone area (Sd=36.3 cm2), but Xmax is only 2.6 mm.
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:42 AM   #15
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
but it will need a 5.25” PR.
No. Two or three 4" PR will be more effective and can easily be mounted in a box with 2 liters internal volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
The OPs question was best FR...
The question was the best 4" fullrange in a 2-3 liters box. Dayton Audio RS100-4 fits there and I don't know something better.

Last edited by Sonce; 15th March 2018 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 15th March 2018, 07:14 AM   #16
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonce View Post
10F is not 3" (76.2 mm) but 4" (101.6 mm)
With that i did a survey of drivers i had drawings and data handy — looks likes it would be classified as a 3.5” (A5 is 3”, A6 is 3.5”. A7 is 4”)

Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?-driver-survey-png

Quote:
No. Two or three 4" PR will be more effective and can easily be mounted in a box with 2 liters internal volume.
Yes, that could work.

Quote:
The question was the best 4" fullrange in a 2-3 liters box. Dayton Audio RS100-4 fits there and I don't know something better.
I missed that.

In that case i’d choose Alpair 6.2p in the 2.5 liter ΅Mar-Ken6 (which i did for my suitcase system). Goes about 2 Hz lower than the ScanSpeak, but Dayton can reach about 9 Hz lower. But no PR hassle. Quality over quantity.

dave
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Old 15th March 2018, 07:47 AM   #17
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Best Full-Range 4" with Passive Radiators?
Just looked up the RS100, Sd = 35.3cm2 classes it with the 3.5” drivers.

dave
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:34 AM   #18
Aleixdet is offline Aleixdet  Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
With that i did a survey of drivers i had drawings and data handy — looks likes it would be classified as a 3.5” (A5 is 3”, A6 is 3.5”. A7 is 4”) <snip>
I think I will try both, RS100 and Alpair 6.2. However I cannot find the Alpair 6.2, I have found the Alpair 6M Gold 3.5", is that the same?. I will do some test with two PR of 4" and without, to see the performances of both speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
A PR is a vent substitute (with an extra mechanical resonance) for boxes where the vent is too large to be practical. I can only envision this as a situation that compromises the FRs performance.

Of the ones i have heard, the Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 in Frugel-Horn Mk3, ranks highest for 4” drivers.

dave
The problem is that I dont have too much space, I only have around 3 liters, I have read the MK3 is tooo big.
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:38 AM   #19
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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For what it's worth, if you're prepared to throw some EQ around, you can get good results with a Fosex FE126. I put one in 2L with a pair of 4" PRs, and played with PR mass until I got something I liked.

You can get flat down to 40Hz, but only at desktop levels. The sound was very good, though - once EQ'd, it's a flat response from 40Hz upwards, and the phase response was also exceptionally flat over a wide bandwidth.

Trouble was that a cone that size can only do so much - you had to be sat within 1m if you wanted to play anything with bass at a useful volume.

If you can compromise to a 60Hz tuning, you gain a good deal of headroom and they'll be more than enough in small rooms.

Chris
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:48 AM   #20
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Best Full-Range 4&quot; with Passive Radiators?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleixdet View Post
II cannot find the Alpair 6.2, I have found the Alpair 6M Gold 3.5", is that the same?
There are 2 Alpair 6.2, one metal A6.2m (the one you have referenced) and a paper cone A6.2p. They both fit the same 2.5 litre ΅Mar-Ken, but as you go larger the boxes change. Which you want is very much to individual preference, both ar ereally good.

Click the image to open in full size.

You can get the paper cones here http://www.kjfaudio.com/product/alpair-6p-2/

dave

BTW: despite being called gold, the cones are really copper colour.
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