I want to build a pair of FR speakers for myself and I would appreciate some help regarding this...
I read a lot of threads here and finally I have closed in on a few choices regarding drivers. I would like to limit myself to 3"/4" drivers and I do not want to use any kind of sub woofer.
The drivers that I want to choose from are Fostex FF105WK and the Mark Audio drivers (Alpair 7/CHP 70/CHR 70), and the speaker cabinets I am interested in are the Vampyr-V or the Onken-style boxes for the Markaudio drivers.
Now I know that comparing these drivers or for that matter the cabinets is like comparing apples and oranges. But if I provide some details about my needs, perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.
I listen to blues (both acoustic and electric) and jazz (mostly the horn-based '50s Blue Note kind). However, I do listen to classic rock and pop (the heavier acts would be along the lines of Led Zep, Stones or the Grateful Dead), which is why I would want some bass (though as I pointed out earlier, I do not intend to use woofers).
My room size is roughly 15x12 feet and I would be driving the speakers using either a TPA3116 amp or a 15-watt SEP tube amp, and I would only be using a turntable as the source.
I have no problems regarding size or build difficulty (though I am somewhat hesitant to build the trapezoidal onkens; I would much rather have the rectangular ones with the wide champhers). Also I am aware that there is a significant price difference between the A7s and the CHR/CHP 70s. That is also not a problem.
So please help me choose between the Vamypr-V and the Markens.
Many thanks!
I read a lot of threads here and finally I have closed in on a few choices regarding drivers. I would like to limit myself to 3"/4" drivers and I do not want to use any kind of sub woofer.
The drivers that I want to choose from are Fostex FF105WK and the Mark Audio drivers (Alpair 7/CHP 70/CHR 70), and the speaker cabinets I am interested in are the Vampyr-V or the Onken-style boxes for the Markaudio drivers.
Now I know that comparing these drivers or for that matter the cabinets is like comparing apples and oranges. But if I provide some details about my needs, perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.
I listen to blues (both acoustic and electric) and jazz (mostly the horn-based '50s Blue Note kind). However, I do listen to classic rock and pop (the heavier acts would be along the lines of Led Zep, Stones or the Grateful Dead), which is why I would want some bass (though as I pointed out earlier, I do not intend to use woofers).
My room size is roughly 15x12 feet and I would be driving the speakers using either a TPA3116 amp or a 15-watt SEP tube amp, and I would only be using a turntable as the source.
I have no problems regarding size or build difficulty (though I am somewhat hesitant to build the trapezoidal onkens; I would much rather have the rectangular ones with the wide champhers). Also I am aware that there is a significant price difference between the A7s and the CHR/CHP 70s. That is also not a problem.
So please help me choose between the Vamypr-V and the Markens.
Many thanks!
I'm sure p10 will jump on this thread soon, but if I may suggest maybe another fruit... let's call it a mango.
For the kind of music you like to listen to, I think the FrugalHorn is something you might enjoy more. That is, if you have the space for them.
Also, the TPA3116 amps are cute, but get something better that will have nicer soundstage and more meat to the sound, especially for blues or Led Zep.
Tube amp could work, or the ACA that's also available here at DIYAudio... that would be a nice upgrade from the 3116, without spending a crazy amount of dollars.
For the kind of music you like to listen to, I think the FrugalHorn is something you might enjoy more. That is, if you have the space for them.
Also, the TPA3116 amps are cute, but get something better that will have nicer soundstage and more meat to the sound, especially for blues or Led Zep.
Tube amp could work, or the ACA that's also available here at DIYAudio... that would be a nice upgrade from the 3116, without spending a crazy amount of dollars.
A few observations, all of course based on my own journey, so YMMV, caveat emptor, etc:
- room describes is not huge, so while I personally prefer floorstanders whenever possible, the stand-mount sized MarKens would probably more than suffice sonically - but then you'd need stands, the cost of which can often exceed that of building a floorstander ;
- A7.3 is worth every penny of the difference over the CHR70s, the newer Pluvia 7 is a quite worthy middle ground between the two;
- TPA3116 can be a decent little piece, although the A7s or Pluvias can definitely resolve any upstream improvements. The ACA is a delicious sounding piece, hopefully Papa's new design with be available sometime soon;
- the Trapezoid "Kens" definitely have a higher pain in diaz factor than the standard rectilinear designs;
- Vampyr with FF105WK is a very nice sounding combination, but need a greater listening (i.e I found at least 2 meters) for coalescence of direct output from the driver and the dual forward firing vents;
- as Perceval notes, the FH3 with A7.3 delivers big time, and is not all that tricky a build - certainly compared to the trapezoid Markens - but it does require breathing room behind / around;
- don't overlook the Pensils - they're also very simple builds, probably go as deep as the FH3 with same drivers, take up far less floor space, and as a simple mono-pole don't have the same placement / listening distance issues as the FH3 / Vampyrs
- room describes is not huge, so while I personally prefer floorstanders whenever possible, the stand-mount sized MarKens would probably more than suffice sonically - but then you'd need stands, the cost of which can often exceed that of building a floorstander ;
- A7.3 is worth every penny of the difference over the CHR70s, the newer Pluvia 7 is a quite worthy middle ground between the two;
- TPA3116 can be a decent little piece, although the A7s or Pluvias can definitely resolve any upstream improvements. The ACA is a delicious sounding piece, hopefully Papa's new design with be available sometime soon;
- the Trapezoid "Kens" definitely have a higher pain in diaz factor than the standard rectilinear designs;
- Vampyr with FF105WK is a very nice sounding combination, but need a greater listening (i.e I found at least 2 meters) for coalescence of direct output from the driver and the dual forward firing vents;
- as Perceval notes, the FH3 with A7.3 delivers big time, and is not all that tricky a build - certainly compared to the trapezoid Markens - but it does require breathing room behind / around;
- don't overlook the Pensils - they're also very simple builds, probably go as deep as the FH3 with same drivers, take up far less floor space, and as a simple mono-pole don't have the same placement / listening distance issues as the FH3 / Vampyrs
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Kingshuk, I have the A7.3 in the Frugalhorns and they are indeed very nice. In my 15 x 20ft room, I like the A7.3's even better when I add a sub to the mix. You said you are NOT planning to add a woofer...have you considered the A10.3? I have a single 10.3 I am breaking-in (for a mono speaker) and do find it to have considerable more bass than the 7.3. ...Just a thought.
Unfortunatly true, but some drivers want boxes too small to be floorstanders — unless you extend the sides down to the floor and fill that with sand (or somesuch).
Seconded. The P7 is sort of the replacement for the CHR (i think) but the new basket is considerably pricier than the plastic baskets which are already pricier than cast aluminum (but better IMHO). The P7 is voiced very much like the A7 (a good thing) but is not capable of the same level of DDR (ie ability to reproduce detail)m but if what is in front of them is already killing the DDR that is moot…and i see a small Class D is being considered so that is likely the case.
The ACA is a stunningly good value. Don’t let its small rated power scare you off… it plays way louder than it has any right to. The ACA 1.1 kitset from diyAudio is having its parts assembled as we speak. A single chassis with the (slightly) revises amplifier and higher voltage PS bricks so a bit more power… and if you have balanced out you can drive a pair in mono for more power. I don’t know how much they will be but i expect not that far off the old price of $300 USD.
No pain no gain. They are a hard build, but the approx teardrop plan squeezes even lower diffraction signature out of the box, and they look cool.
It gets the most bass i have yet heard out of the FF105wk.
A design that still surprises me with how good they are, and except for the A7 MOAP, the A7.3 (or better A7.3eN) is the best driver for it. And they can often go closer to the wall than Chris indicates.
I wouldn’t be tempted to build them without the optional holey brace… and that brace is as much work as the rest of the box.
The miniOnkens work well, they are smallish, and they have very aticulate bass, but they only go as low as they go. The rectangular and trapezoid versions with the vents down the sides have quite low diffraction signatures.
dave
Thanks Perceval for your input... I already have the tube amp and the TPA3116... so I would probably end up using the tube amp.
I had considered making the Frugel-Horn and already have a pair of Fostex FE126en drivers. But I never got around to doing anything with them. Primarily because i have stock drivers and I'm too chicken to try and enabl them
Thanks Chris! Yes indeed the room is not very large though I could use another room which is about 15x20 feet. Would that work for the Vampyr-V?
Regarding stands...I live in India and while it takes longer shipping times and a fair bit of customs duties to get the drivers, fabricating a decent pair of metal stands locally would not really break the bank
I will look into the Pensils that you mention.
Thanks Dave for your suggestions. Indeed I had considered the Vampyrs with the 105wk because I had read in these forums about its bass.
To be honest, one of the reasons why I was swayed by the Onkens and the Vampyr was simply because they looked so cool. Rather silly on my part I know... when I should probably be looking at sonics more. But there is a wife at home. so there
Now I am a bit iffy regarding the Pensils...
Perhaps I should go with the Onkens for the more acoustic sounding stuff and use my preexisting 3-ways for the bassier rock music
I haven't heard the A10P so I am unable to compare however, I am really enjoying the detail and the bass capability of the metal 10.3 as it is breaking-in, even though it is only mounted in a cardboard box. I am anxious to hear it in the Trapezoid Ken...soon to be finished.
Chrisb, you are an animal...building all the pairs of Trapezoid Kens that you have made! You have my respect! Making this single Trap Ken has shown me that I am more of a wood hack than a woodworker. But I am patient so it will get completed. I have to say... the looks of the Trapezoid are very cool!
Kingshuk, The A10.3's in FH3 XL's would be treat!
Chris has his own set of outstanding builds.
dave
Whoa! They look awesome and suffice to say some serious woodworking!
It might not be clear from the picture but there are 4 boxes, a pr of uFonkenSET with separate FonkenWoofs acting as stands.
dave
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