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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
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Old 13th December 2017, 09:49 PM   #701
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
beautiful renderings - I'd try the first one as a flat disc to see if there's any merir
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Old 14th December 2017, 06:43 AM   #702
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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How wide should the slot be?
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Old 14th December 2017, 01:34 PM   #703
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
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I'm testing the Fane in 3.75 vf sealed box against one of the old fisher 3 ways right now (in "nearly" full range, >60hz). It's sort of an interesting comparison as they seem to complement one another well. The Fane has some upper mid shout where the Fishers are a bit dry, and the Fane doesn't have the punch that the ported 12" woofer in the Fisher does. The tweeter in the Fisher has a tiny bit more upper end sparkle that the Fane does not, but it's not terribly noticeable. So a bit of back and forth. I'm not actually sure which I like better yet. To be honest, I was hoping for a bit more midbass punch from the Fane - but it's true that if you get the cone moving too much, it muddles up the mids/highs.

Re: the beam blocker, that's an interesting approach. Probably does similar things to what GM was suggesting with adding felt or similar at the "hot" spot to tame it a bit. I'm pretty happy still with what the 1st prototype acoustic lens is doing, haven't had a chance to make a 3rd prototype of anything.

Working on a sealed box now for the other 18" helper woofer for testing, but next for the other Fane is an XKi design.

Jesse
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Bi-amped w/ 18" Dayton PA460s for LF, & 12" Fane 12-250TCs on top for HF. Trying 18" woofers in 9.8cf ported / 4cf sealed boxes, and trying 12" FR in a 3.75 cf sealed box and XKi box next. Large horn subwoofer coming soon for LFE.
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Old 14th December 2017, 09:04 PM   #704
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
if you want shear punch, then I might recommend a Karlson box for the 18. Voice-coil inductance vs Re might be the deciding factor. It would be devoid of low bass (in proportion to mids)

LossyLe used in sims - it may behave different in reality as seen in measurements

rough guess 136 L K vs 260L reflex vs 120L sealed box

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Old 15th December 2017, 01:31 AM   #705
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbcrx007 View Post
GM - So you're actually putting the metal rod of the stethoscope on the cone? Or playing white noise and listening to it thru the scope as you move from dustcap to surround?

I'm still not sure what to listen for

I guess I'd need something higher end to demo

My ears just don't seem to be programmed to pick out as much detail as some of you- it just sounds good or it doesn't.. very scientific eh?

It compares favorably against my yamaha 3 way bookshelf speakers
Right, some use a fingernail, some want more resolution. Not white noise, pink noise or pure tones now that they're apparently available for cheap, free.

As I said, play a single Hz and find where all it's launching and map it; you don't need 'golden ears' or a high res system to be able to hear differences in amplitude and whether it's 'ringing' or not and normally the goal is to damp/remove any place that's too resonant for your 'taste' [good/no good] and/or when they are launching randomly over the cone area rather than ~uniformly.

Re: whizzer, dustcap, best for a novice to just do basic stuff like the $0.98 tweak felt dots or similar and experiment on drivers salvaged out of radios, TVs, etc..

I guess better than no reference, though IME with their ilk it's faintly damning the Fane.

GM
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Last edited by GM; 15th December 2017 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 15th December 2017, 02:30 AM   #706
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
more gobblygoop - has xrk971 simulated an XKi yet for Pa460-8?


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Old 15th December 2017, 11:43 AM   #707
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
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GM - interesting, thanks for explaining a bit more about using the stethoscope... I'll give it a try. At 1 hz there obviously won't be any audible sound, so I guess I'll just be hearing the speaker cone slapping the end of the stethoscope rod... Sounds kind of dicey, I'll try it on something throwaway first!
Re: Whizzer/dustcap, my point was that I don't hear what's wrong... Therefore it would be difficult to try and improve on it with any of the tweaks I've read about, since I may not be able to hear any improvement.
I know the comparison to the cheap bookshelf speakers isn't exactly a compliment, it's just the comparison I had handy. I swapped out the Yammie bookshelf speaker for one of the floorstanding Fisher's a few days ago, and I can't tell if I prefer the Fisher or the Fane. Definitely a different sound between them, but if I were to only run either the Fane in a sealed box or the Fisher 3 way as Full Range, I think I'd choose the Fisher. Running bi-amped though, with the Fane/Fisher only getting >200 hz, they both sound pretty good to me, with the Fane sounding maybe just a bit better - seems to have cleaner sound at higher volumes, sounds more open (with the lens in place), and has that point source thing going for it.

Freddy - Of course you recommend the Karlson... though I see what you mean about more punch, and that BP effect seems to roll off right around 200 hz where I'm crossing over to the HF channel.
I'm actually pretty happy with the 18" woofer in the big ported box (it was a huge improvement after I added cross bracing and insulation inside), but I'm curious to see how a ported box with it sounds... I think the f3 was only like 66 hz, but maybe with the gradual roll-off it will sound good. I have a reasonably good feel for what the LF stuff should sound like, and what's good/bad. Its the mids/highs I don't seem to be as sensitive to.

I don't think Xrk ever did an XKi box for the PA460? If he did, I missed it. I figured I'd try his XKi design for the Fane first anyway... At some point I need to recover my garage back from wood cutting/speaker building and get to rebuilding a trackday miata!

Jesse
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Bi-amped w/ 18" Dayton PA460s for LF, & 12" Fane 12-250TCs on top for HF. Trying 18" woofers in 9.8cf ported / 4cf sealed boxes, and trying 12" FR in a 3.75 cf sealed box and XKi box next. Large horn subwoofer coming soon for LFE.
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