Thanks for the reminder Dave... I completely forgot about that post. I will try it out sealed then drilled
I believe that simulation was done with the old/wrong Thielle-Small parameters. Can you repeat the simulation with the new/correct parameters?
scandinavianaudiolabs
Please note that the Fo and the Qtes will be lower once the driver has been broken in.
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Qt, Fs not significantly changed from before so the curves are the same but the much smaller Vas yields much smaller boxes… 72 litres for Q = 0.9, 32 litres for Q=1.0. Larger boxes will push Q lower but to reach the natural unloaded Q you probably need to use the room on the other side of the wall.
dave
dave
I've completed my testing. Here's your chance to snag a pair for half-price. 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap...an-audio-labs-sal-08c08-pair.html#post5308578
Inlcudes Nelson Pass filters from his 2015 BAF talk if you want them.
My measurements (for these actual drivers) can be found here:
Measuring SAL | AudioMaker
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap...an-audio-labs-sal-08c08-pair.html#post5308578
Inlcudes Nelson Pass filters from his 2015 BAF talk if you want them.
My measurements (for these actual drivers) can be found here:
Measuring SAL | AudioMaker
Attachments
hi Frank and all,
I bought a new pair of SAL from a member of this forum unopened box. I opened it today and hook the driver units by itself to my system to see how it sounds before adding in subs, tweeters, Xover, etc.
My experience is a bit different with some of the people in this thread. I was expecting a really nice sounding, large sound stage and dynamic range out of these units going from low to high freqs; however, the 2 units is lacking alot of bass and the highs. When the music hitting the hight notes it sounds really distorted and peaking(hurting my ears). My system is DIY FW F4/BA3 preamp combo. I also had Aleph J amp and the sonic result is the same with the SAL units. When I switched back my system back to the 3 way JM Focal lab speakers, it sounds nice again so it's not my system that causing these distortion that I experienced.
Does anyone else have the same experience with mine ? Should I start my project by adding in sub and Xover circuit hoping it will improve the sound later on ?
I did not use any type of Xover, filter for my 1st listening test. I directly connect output of the FW amp to both of the drivers. Am I doing anything wrong ?
Thanks,
Tom
I bought a new pair of SAL from a member of this forum unopened box. I opened it today and hook the driver units by itself to my system to see how it sounds before adding in subs, tweeters, Xover, etc.
My experience is a bit different with some of the people in this thread. I was expecting a really nice sounding, large sound stage and dynamic range out of these units going from low to high freqs; however, the 2 units is lacking alot of bass and the highs. When the music hitting the hight notes it sounds really distorted and peaking(hurting my ears). My system is DIY FW F4/BA3 preamp combo. I also had Aleph J amp and the sonic result is the same with the SAL units. When I switched back my system back to the 3 way JM Focal lab speakers, it sounds nice again so it's not my system that causing these distortion that I experienced.
Does anyone else have the same experience with mine ? Should I start my project by adding in sub and Xover circuit hoping it will improve the sound later on ?
I did not use any type of Xover, filter for my 1st listening test. I directly connect output of the FW amp to both of the drivers. Am I doing anything wrong ?
Thanks,
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Sorry to hear about your first experience with the SAL unit. I saw your PM at 07:00 this morning, please give me a minute or two to respond.
All units need to be broken in, I typical recommend 50 to 100 hours of music at moderate level. The lack of bas response may be due to the units was not mounted in a box, or baffle (or where they?).
It is difficult to make any type of diagnostics from a distance. But have you ruled out a mechanical fault?
If you gently move the cone back and forth, dos it make any rubbing sound? If that is the case, the units are defective.
Your welcome to contact me any time, but please give me a day or two to response.
Best of luck
Frank
Sorry I can't shed any light or think why yours are so bad...Ive had the SAL drivers in my system for some months and are fantastic IMO. Their are some who feel the need to add a tweeter/super tweeter.?? I don't need one thats for sure. I love the sonic ability of these full range drivers and don't sound distorted/harsh in any way by any stretch of the imagination on the end of any of my pre/power amps..
I did try Nelsons suggested passive xover though but that (for me) did give a harsh presentation and soon reverted back to Franks passive xover design.
I have since gone active and a whole new world of enjoyment has arrived with these units.
Thank you Frank and all for the very prompt and warm reply and suggestion! Really appreciate the input. First of all, I have NO experience with OB sound and i'm so intrigured to build one after reading so many good reviews and comments from Mr. Pass himself and other people in the forum.
Yes, I only have the drivers on the table with no baffle or box. It's only a plug and play trial for me to see what's missing so that I can add on. I don't have any mic or any fancy tools to measure freq response, Everything I use is my ears to make judgement I think I have decent ears after listening to alot of hi-ends and build alot of PASS DIY amps. I have a particular sound that I like and expect out of my system and speakers. I always find ways to improve and experiment with different type of sounds out of different DIY amps/preamps combo with SS and tube. However, only the 1st experience kinda throws me off a bit after so much expectation. Lacking bass is fine with me since I know it will with OB, but the high end of the spectrum is kinda close and seems like the driver is trying too hard to reach there but couldn't.
The drivers look great visually no sign of damaged or loosed wire. I will try what Frank suggest "If you gently move the cone back and forth, dos it make any rubbing sound? If that is the case, the units are defective"
Maybe the driver needs some time to break in since it's brand new and seal in the box like Frank said. Maybe it needs to be mounted on the right size plywood with the right Xover circuitry. I will add in the Sub and try out both Frank and Nelson's passive Xover circuitry first before trying out Active
Thanks all for the feedbacks!
Regards,
Tom
Yes, I only have the drivers on the table with no baffle or box. It's only a plug and play trial for me to see what's missing so that I can add on. I don't have any mic or any fancy tools to measure freq response, Everything I use is my ears to make judgement
I think I have decent ears after listening to alot of hi-ends and build alot of PASS DIY amps. I have a particular sound that I like and expect out of my system and speakers. I always find ways to improve and experiment with different type of sounds out of different DIY amps/preamps combo with SS and tube. However, only the 1st experience kinda throws me off a bit after so much expectation. Lacking bass is fine with me since I know it will with OB, but the high end of the spectrum is kinda close and seems like the driver is trying too hard to reach there but couldn't.The drivers look great visually no sign of damaged or loosed wire. I will try what Frank suggest "If you gently move the cone back and forth, dos it make any rubbing sound? If that is the case, the units are defective"
Maybe the driver needs some time to break in since it's brand new and seal in the box like Frank said. Maybe it needs to be mounted on the right size plywood with the right Xover circuitry. I will add in the Sub and try out both Frank and Nelson's passive Xover circuitry first before trying out Active
Thanks all for the feedbacks!
Regards,
Tom
Ok, that might pretty much be the reason why they don't sound right. Add a proper baffle or box. There is a good reason why speakers use baffles or boxes.
You will hear almost no bass if they aren’t in a baffle or box. The sound waves from the front of the driver are perfectly out of phase with the sound coming from the rear of the driver! They then cancel each other out.
You need to either install them in a proper sized box or in a flat piece of plywood about a meter square at a minimum (an “open baffle”, which is big enough so the sound waves from the front can’t “sneak around” to the rear and cancel out the bass.)
I’m concerned that you were talking about distorted highs. It’s possible that you turned up the volume to try and get bass and that’s why the treble sounded so distorted. It’s possible that you’ve damaged the drivers of this is what happened, but this is just a guess.
You need to either install them in a proper sized box or in a flat piece of plywood about a meter square at a minimum (an “open baffle”, which is big enough so the sound waves from the front can’t “sneak around” to the rear and cancel out the bass.)
I’m concerned that you were talking about distorted highs. It’s possible that you turned up the volume to try and get bass and that’s why the treble sounded so distorted. It’s possible that you’ve damaged the drivers of this is what happened, but this is just a guess.
Thanks for the feedback Variac. Not sure if I damage the drivers or not. I'm not sure if the drivers can be easily damaged at the normal listening level. If that's the case then it is not a good sign for the drivers this price range and its capability of driving various type of music.
I did turn up the volume but not loud at all, it's at the normal listening level to have the feel for bass and treble. Definitely no bass but I don't like the highs. The treble is not airy and open as my 3way speakers, it's squeezing like a nail on glass if I would describe and hurting my ears. The sound is still definitely there for high treble it's not wobbling by any means but just hard to bear just as listening to high pitch soprano opera singer trying too hard
I did turn up the volume but not loud at all, it's at the normal listening level to have the feel for bass and treble. Definitely no bass but I don't like the highs. The treble is not airy and open as my 3way speakers, it's squeezing like a nail on glass if I would describe and hurting my ears. The sound is still definitely there for high treble it's not wobbling by any means but just hard to bear just as listening to high pitch soprano opera singer trying too hard
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