Well 2 cheap plywood or particle board or mdf 4x4 foot baffles with no other drivers would certainly be a good baseline and pretty easy to make from a 4x8 sheet! Then add the “correction” filters and see if that helps or hurts.
Hmm, this would be easy: maybe try an Lpad on the woofers to turn them down. Having them too loud could be the issue. They are very efficient. And having 2 drivers is going to be more so.
If you try with only one woofer and it gets a bit better then that is a sign they are too loud.
After that then something like the mini DSP would allow you to quickly try different crossover frequencies and relative volumes. It seems that you would have to tweak these from what you’ve described. Obviously the wrong crossover freq or relative volumes can completely ruin the sound, but since you don’t have much experience that is probably too much for you.
Is there an open baffle design with those woofers that you can copy exactly?
Hmm, this would be easy: maybe try an Lpad on the woofers to turn them down. Having them too loud could be the issue. They are very efficient. And having 2 drivers is going to be more so.
If you try with only one woofer and it gets a bit better then that is a sign they are too loud.
After that then something like the mini DSP would allow you to quickly try different crossover frequencies and relative volumes. It seems that you would have to tweak these from what you’ve described. Obviously the wrong crossover freq or relative volumes can completely ruin the sound, but since you don’t have much experience that is probably too much for you.
Is there an open baffle design with those woofers that you can copy exactly?
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Thank you scottjoblin, bk856er, and Variac.
I will start from scratch this time. Will buy the Jasper jig and router. I was using the jigsaw but it does not cut the perfect circle!
The design I was using is straight from PureAudioProject – Open Baffle Speakers, Drivers and more... They were using the same sub, obviously different FR driver. Not sure what Xover they are using.
I was thinking of DIY Pass B4 active Xover to tune in different slope and XO frequency. I'm also patiently waiting for the Active Xover kits from Nelson. He told me he will release it some time this year not sure when
I will start from scratch this time. Will buy the Jasper jig and router. I was using the jigsaw but it does not cut the perfect circle!
The design I was using is straight from PureAudioProject – Open Baffle Speakers, Drivers and more... They were using the same sub, obviously different FR driver. Not sure what Xover they are using.
I was thinking of DIY Pass B4 active Xover to tune in different slope and XO frequency. I'm also patiently waiting for the Active Xover kits from Nelson. He told me he will release it some time this year not sure when
I build my first unit yesterday, will continue with second this week. I'm using a seal box for now will drill holes at the back as suggested by Dave after both units are up so I can judge the addition it brings (Not that I don't trust you Dave, just wanted to experience it)
Initial first sound wasn't appealing at all, but I did see Frank remark about long break in, so after about 2 hrs at low volume I did notice improvement in vocals and treble, however bass was still weak but integrate well with sub to give nice bottom end and punchiness. The lack of bass might be also from fact that it's single channel in stereo setup.
I'm using it with MinIDSP haven't tried to EQ or measure it yet.
Frank,
Any recommendations?
Alex
Initial first sound wasn't appealing at all, but I did see Frank remark about long break in, so after about 2 hrs at low volume I did notice improvement in vocals and treble, however bass was still weak but integrate well with sub to give nice bottom end and punchiness. The lack of bass might be also from fact that it's single channel in stereo setup.
I'm using it with MinIDSP haven't tried to EQ or measure it yet.
Frank,
Any recommendations?
Alex
@ Tom
My 2 cents: Eminence Beta 15s need active EQ in Open Baffle. Best run them active, around 100 hz second order + Eq. Use B5 crossoverv or do something on your own, like the basic x-over block on the Nelson SLoB article. Now I am running plain OB, but would like to modify it into Slot load.
FR can be run either via passive or active crossover, with its own amp. The point is to have a bi-amped system and independent gain settings, otherwise it will be very hard to match the volumes-sensitivities (passively).
Regarding FR's in closed/aperiodic boxes, I found that they sound better when driven with high output impedance amps (valves or F2-like)...
My 2 cents: Eminence Beta 15s need active EQ in Open Baffle. Best run them active, around 100 hz second order + Eq. Use B5 crossoverv or do something on your own, like the basic x-over block on the Nelson SLoB article. Now I am running plain OB, but would like to modify it into Slot load.
FR can be run either via passive or active crossover, with its own amp. The point is to have a bi-amped system and independent gain settings, otherwise it will be very hard to match the volumes-sensitivities (passively).
Regarding FR's in closed/aperiodic boxes, I found that they sound better when driven with high output impedance amps (valves or F2-like)...
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Thank you Vix, Variac, Planet10.
I think my faith has been restored. I bought 4ft x 4ft heavy plywood and install a single SAL in the middle and directly connected to my F4/BA3 amp with no filter.
The initial result is very POSITIVE. Right out of the box, with no break in time, the driver is able to deliver solid good sonic quality with very relaxed, soft inviting, and non-fatigue midrange, a tad shy on the very high note and a good bit of bottom end. To my surprise, the music is so so much better with this configuration of single SAL on 4ftx4ft than my previous model (2 15'' sub + SAL in the middle in 3 separate pieces). I'm pretty sure after break-in time, the sonic quality of the driver will be alot better
This initial results gives me courage to continue on this journey. I just made the order of MiniDSP 2x4HD and UMK-1 microphone for freq response measurement. I will start Active Xover and biamping from here. If I receive good result, I will look into DIY B4 or B5 for active Xover.
Just a wild thought, I'm thinking of mouting 2 SAL drivers in the vertical line in the middle of 4x4 plywood sheet for the FR. For the bass, I probably LR's model Dipole protos and put the 2 15'' Emiennence Beta on each side closed to the wall
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Thanks,
Tom
I think my faith has been restored. I bought 4ft x 4ft heavy plywood and install a single SAL in the middle and directly connected to my F4/BA3 amp with no filter.
The initial result is very POSITIVE. Right out of the box, with no break in time, the driver is able to deliver solid good sonic quality with very relaxed, soft inviting, and non-fatigue midrange, a tad shy on the very high note and a good bit of bottom end. To my surprise, the music is so so much better with this configuration of single SAL on 4ftx4ft than my previous model (2 15'' sub + SAL in the middle in 3 separate pieces). I'm pretty sure after break-in time, the sonic quality of the driver will be alot better
This initial results gives me courage to continue on this journey. I just made the order of MiniDSP 2x4HD and UMK-1 microphone for freq response measurement. I will start Active Xover and biamping from here. If I receive good result, I will look into DIY B4 or B5 for active Xover.
Just a wild thought, I'm thinking of mouting 2 SAL drivers in the vertical line in the middle of 4x4 plywood sheet for the FR. For the bass, I probably LR's model Dipole protos and put the 2 15'' Emiennence Beta on each side closed to the wall
Thanks,
Tom
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yes scottjoplin, it is for mono for now. I will put 2 SAL drivers in parallel in the same 4x4 panel and experiment with the sound while waiting for the miniDSP active Xover to arrive
hi Frank,
Thank you for the reply. I followed your Passive xover:
- For Sub, I used Dayton Audio 5.0mH 18 AWG air core in series with 150uF
- For FR, I used 100uf in series with Dayton Audio 10mH 18 AWG I Core
Does it sound right to you ?
Btw, the SAL driver itself is very good and addicting, I like it. I've been playing just SAL driver in the past hour and still like the soft/inviting and non-fatigue sound that it carries
Thanks,
Tom
Thank you for the reply. I followed your Passive xover:
- For Sub, I used Dayton Audio 5.0mH 18 AWG air core in series with 150uF
- For FR, I used 100uf in series with Dayton Audio 10mH 18 AWG I Core
Does it sound right to you ?
Btw, the SAL driver itself is very good and addicting, I like it. I've been playing just SAL driver in the past hour and still like the soft/inviting and non-fatigue sound that it carries
Thanks,
Tom
Glad you like them and believe me they will get better over time.
Here is a quick pic. of some inductors for comparison, so you can see what I mean. Just need you to be sure
I believe you will get some phase out problems if you mount 2 SAL units in one baffle.
I use 2 SP-382PA from Monacor pr. side. And I see that they are different from the ones you use.
Here is a quick pic. of some inductors for comparison, so you can see what I mean. Just need you to be sure
I believe you will get some phase out problems if you mount 2 SAL units in one baffle.
I use 2 SP-382PA from Monacor pr. side. And I see that they are different from the ones you use.
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Thank you Frank! The driver is indeed very good! I can see what others are saying now!
If 5mH and 10mH are correct values, I will measure them in the LCR meter to make sure the values are correct. I will go with Active xover next to be on the safe side and quick experiment with different XO freq range and octave slope.
Regards,
Tom
If 5mH and 10mH are correct values, I will measure them in the LCR meter to make sure the values are correct. I will go with Active xover next to be on the safe side and quick experiment with different XO freq range and octave slope.
Regards,
Tom
Glad you like them and believe me they will get better over time.
Here is a quick pic. of some inductors for comparison, so you can see what I mean. Just need you to be sure
I believe you will get some phase out problems if you mount 2 SAL units in one baffle.
I use 2 SP-382PA from Monacor pr. side. And I see that they are different from the ones you use.
Just checking, for the sub you have the capacitor across it and the SAL has the coil across it?
Yes Scottjoplin, just double check, cap across sub and coil across SAL
Will definitely double check the Passive Xover again for sure to make sure the values, wiring is correct.
Regards,
Tom
Will definitely double check the Passive Xover again for sure to make sure the values, wiring is correct.
Regards,
Tom
@Tom: Having just one fullrange driver in a big OB can sound sweet and very nice for easy chillot music, but won't do if you want to play something more demanding.
If I was you, I would buid something like Nelson's Slot Loaded Open Baffle, but I would use two Eminences side by side in a Slot, just like in the article, and then the Sal above them. You can experiment with passive crossovers but best is to go active. You can try to use a simple first order passive crossover, but driven by two separate amps so you can adjust relative gains. For woofers, if they are in parallel thus giving 4 ohms, you will need at least 10mH inductor in series. For the Sal, try 100uF cap in series. These are just starting points for experimentation. Otherwise, the best solution is to use B5 active crossover...
If I was you, I would buid something like Nelson's Slot Loaded Open Baffle, but I would use two Eminences side by side in a Slot, just like in the article, and then the Sal above them. You can experiment with passive crossovers but best is to go active. You can try to use a simple first order passive crossover, but driven by two separate amps so you can adjust relative gains. For woofers, if they are in parallel thus giving 4 ohms, you will need at least 10mH inductor in series. For the Sal, try 100uF cap in series. These are just starting points for experimentation. Otherwise, the best solution is to use B5 active crossover...
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