Coaxial speaker performs great... but hurts ears with some highs - diyAudio
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Old 20th January 2017, 07:55 PM   #1
hnash53 is offline hnash53  United States
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Default Coaxial speaker performs great... but hurts ears with some highs

https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com...-range-speaker

I have these speakers mounted in 0.6 cu ft sealed enclosures. They have excellent imaging and staging. Great separation. Off-axis response is very good.

On some high frequencies though, like high piano keys, they hurt my ears.

Now, I'm 63 and wear modern hearing aids in both ears, with most of the loss in the high frequencies.

So, I'm wondering if there are any mods... invasive or non-invasive... that can help attenuate this.

It may be that my hearing aids are adjusted a bit "high." I might be able to do something there.

But are there other ways to attenuate this? Substitute a different capacitor? Place some material over the tweeter? Dampen the frame?

Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 20th January 2017, 08:53 PM   #2
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I take a 20 to 20000 sweep (youtube) and listen for unwanted peaks.
Then I go here:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
Use this calculator as a starter and fiddle about a bit.
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:18 PM   #3
chrisb is online now chrisb  Canada
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What quality of sound do you hear with the same music on other systems - it may not be the hearing aids at all.

The specs don't list the XO frequency, so it's hard to say if the tweeter is entirely at fault, but judging from the photo, the XO cap will is as cheap an NPE as money can buy. This is often the case with drivers at this price range.



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you might want to consider upgrading to a small poly film, and if possible relocate to behind the magnet .

What equipment is in the signal path, amps, etc upstream? If it's practical to inject some EQ before the amp(s), you could attempt to mitigate it there.
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:36 PM   #4
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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"Upgrading" with better capacitor will not help. This is standard ceiling speaker, with overly loud mid/high frequencies coming from the midbass driver, not from the tweeter. You need a proper low-pass filter for the midbass - try with 1 mH inductor in series (before, cut the wires between the cone and the tweeter/cap, and connect the tweeter/cap to the amp). Much better low-pass filter is second-order (with inductor and capacitor), but it requires measurements.
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Old 21st January 2017, 03:16 AM   #5
chrisb is online now chrisb  Canada
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Well, as we don't know exactly where they cross over, or exactly how "high" is the area where they're misbehaving, some of thix is conjecture. But it is hard to disagree with the position that a cheap ceiling / jukebox speaker is unlikely to be free of issues when using them as done here.

Mind you, I've installed a couple of background music systems in restaurants using plastic enclosured coaxes by Dayton - they did cost approx double the $25 (each?) of these - and weren't being used in a serious music system, but they sounded far better that I thought they should.

Something else that might be a factor for the OP is tinnitus -which I can attest much like presbyopia is one of the joys of senior citizenship
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Old 21st January 2017, 04:42 AM   #6
hnash53 is offline hnash53  United States
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The cap that is present in these speakers says "50v 3u3." But if the issue is with the woofer at the higher frequencies, I don't know that I can do much about that.

I had installed these same speakers in a smaller cabinet about 0.30 cu ft. and they really sound great. But when I put another same pair into this 0.60 cu ft cabinet, that's when I started getting this high pitch that is nasty to my ears. Thing is, I had a friend over the other day and these larger speakers were playing and I asked her if she heard that high pitch/uncomfortable sound... and she said she didn't... and she has normal hearing.

I don't have tinnitis... just significant hearing loss. Any chance of calming these down with any fabric/felt over the tweeter? Tried something and it sort of made the difference but the high pitched piano sounds still are there.

As suggested, maybe this just isn't the proper "application" for these speakers. I was thinking about getting some Tang Band full rangers.
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Old 21st January 2017, 05:55 AM   #7
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Well, that woofer/tweeter combo has some design flaws but it is not intended for hifi so why worry ? A real concentric/coaxial tweeter should be housed in the gap inside the woofer's former ( voice coil ), thus using woofer's cone as a waveguide.
A real tweeter should have no problem to emit substantial power over 8 kHz and keep it over one or two octaves.
I see that if you cut the two wires that come out of the cone that bring power to the tweeter, you can make it indipendent, allowing you to try different filters...
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Old 21st January 2017, 06:14 AM   #8
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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if that's like the old Audax TW51 type tweeter, it would be a good performer. If you had a mic setup, I think there's a free real time analyzer called "SynRTA" - seeing what the woofer and tweeter do would help selecting a filter. I think there are RTA applications for cellphones and ~$15 mics available too.

I have some Frazier CAT 40 with the tweeter in front of the woofer - don't know if they can play a square wave, but do sound very clear for lower priced components

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Old 21st January 2017, 06:19 AM   #9
dandee is offline dandee  United States
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a lot of tweeters are just irritating to listen to for long periods of time.... usually a soft dome tweeter is kind on the ears
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Old 21st January 2017, 12:27 PM   #10
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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I think a lot of people with hearing loss may have a problem called "recruitment" which can make some sounds painful. Hearing aids could possibly exacerbate this since they amplify, but I don't have any real experience with hearing aid issues.

You could add a resistor in series with the cap if the problem is the tweeter. If the problem is the woofer, just turn it so it isn't pointing directly at you. I've heard of people pointing speakers at the wall and listening to the reflections
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